[Stratopastor]

The treble bleed idea works for a lot of people but let's be clear that it's there to allow more treble through with the volume knob turned down some way. If there's not enough treble with the volume all the way up, something else is called for.

[Major Tom]

I really don't want to pull it open yet, since I need to play a show coming up. I'm pretty sure it's got a bunch of 500k in there, but I don't remember. I want to rewire it soon anyways for some plans I have with it, and that's why I"m trying to find out what I should do. What kind of cap do I need to put on for a treble bleed? And, I'm wondering if the master volume pot is contributing to the lack of highs. Is there a way to wire the master volume so that it doesn't do that, or is that just a matter of changing pots?

If it were me, I would do away with the master volume - for me personally, having a volume and then a master volume is overkill; too many controls, but then, I like things kept simple for live playing. If you want to keep the master volume, I would definitely put 1 meg pots in there. I've been using a .02mf cap + 100 or 120K resistor on my guitars, though there are other recommended combinations out there. For 1 meg pots, a different values of the cap and resistor I think would be appropriate - you can probably find a recommended combination for that value somewhere on line.

The treble bleed idea works for a lot of people but let's be clear that it's there to allow more treble through with the volume knob turned down some way. If there's not enough treble with the volume all the way up, something else is called for.

+1 Years ago, before the internet, before I learned about and installed the treble bleeds, I got in the habit of leaving my guitar volume all the way up because I didn't like the loss of treble. I would also add that when using a 250K volume pot, or the equivalent (like a Gretsch with 2 500K volume pots in circuit at the same time), I believe the amount of treble lost when rolling back the volume will be more significant than a 500K. Of course, a lot of it has to do with the impedance of the device the guitar is connected to; i.e., pedal, amp, modeler, whatever. The lower the overall impedance (guitar's electronics + device its connected to), the more loss. The relative output of the pickups is also a factor - the higher the output, the less treble loss.

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

1 Meg pots in general are a bit harsh sounding in a lot of people's estimation. Personally, it seems to be an audible difference, but a lot of people do not like it. I am undecided. It can be noticeably harsh. It can sound okay, depends on the guitar.

If you like the gretsch's sound now, I might look into doing a 2 pot replacement, I would replace both volume pots with push/pulls of the same value, and do a complete bypass of the pots to output potentially with the push/pull. That would get you the max high end possible.

I've never heard that about the 1 megs, but it makes sense, especially for strats and teles. Keep in mind, though, that with this Gretsch having 2 volume controls in the circuit at once, that using 1 megs for both is the exact impedance of having a single 500K volume pot. The results for him, assuming that 500k's are in there now, would be the same as changing from a 250K to a 500K in a single volume ax....

[Almost Enough]

Originally Posted by Major Tom

before the internet

But seriously. I think I'm going to take the thing apart next week and take a look at what is in there, and maybe rewire it. I came across some extra cash, so I could afford to get the necessary components and better wire.

To answer most the questions and comments without quoting...

I like having the master in conjunction with the individual for swells with both pickups on. However....if I got rid of the individual volumes, that might work too....hmm.

I want individual tone knobs instead of just the master tone.

The guitar does lose high end super quick when I roll back the volume on either pickup, or the master. Normally I compensate by jacking the treble all the way up on the amp, and rolling back a little if it gets ice picky...which it normally doesn't get there (at least in comparison with my single coil guitars). I use the volume knobs A LOT to adjust gain levels and dynamics, so a more effective treble bleed would be fantastic.

I realize I'm using humbuckers and not single coils. I'm not trying to get that spank out of the Gretsch...just a little more top end.

Also, I am using some pretty fat strings on the thing. These ones, to be exact. Would that contribute to the lack of high end? I LOVE the punch I get from them, and the feel of them. I'd like to stick with them.

[Major Tom]

Also, I am using some pretty fat strings on the thing. These ones, to be exact. Would that contribute to the lack of high end? I LOVE the punch I get from them, and the feel of them. I'd like to stick with them.

Are those pure nickel wrap or nickel plated wrap? It doesn't say on the package. Pure nickels, I believe have less treble - they are more "mellow" sounding, what some may call "warmer" sounding. They also have less output since nickel does not have the magnetic properties of nickel plated steel. Of course, that only applies to the wound strings. I had a set on a guitar that I bought, and didn't realize what they were until I changed them. Meanwhile, I had adjusted the pickups higher on the bass side to compensate for their lower output. I thought the guitar was really dark sounding. IMO, nickel plated are the classic sound for Rock, country, etc. If you want twang, definitely nickel plated.

I personally prefer plain 3rd as opposed to wounds for their brighter sound.

[Almost Enough]

Originally Posted by Major Tom

Are those pure nickel wrap or nickel plated wrap? It doesn't say on the package. Pure nickels, I believe have less treble - they are more "mellow" sounding, what some may call "warmer" sounding. They also have less output since nickel does not have the magnetic properties of nickel plated steel. Of course, that only applies to the wound strings. I had a set on a guitar that I bought, and didn't realize what they were until I changed them. Meanwhile, I had adjusted the pickups higher on the bass side to compensate for their lower output. I thought the guitar was really dark sounding. IMO, nickel plated are the classic sound for Rock, country, etc. If you want twang, definitely nickel plated.

I personally prefer plain 3rd as opposed to wounds for their brighter sound.

Ernie Ball Electric Guitar - Nickel Wound Medium Light, .012 - .054, 2206

This site says they're nickel plated. Everyone who reviews them say what I noticed with my tone. FAT, and PUNCHY. More beef. I'm wondering, though, if that's partly the culprit? And, if so, what can I do the compensate and KEEP those strings, but still get more highs.

Again, I'm not able to get inside of the guitar yet, as I'm working all weekend. But I'm definitely appreciative of the help so far.

Wasn't there another guy on the board who modded his G5120? I'm wondering if he ever did anything with the electronics...

[Stratopastor]

well... if you do go inside the guitar (I agree it's a pain to do so).... try unsoldering one pickup from the wiring loom and running a cord from the pickup straight to the amp. If that brings the twang on, and I hope it does, you'll know it's worth playing around with the control circuitry in some way. If not, at least you'll know the search for more treble is futile with that guitar/pickup combination.