Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Musicians > Worship Leading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-15-2011, 03:57 PM   #1
RIP CITY.
 
meatfinger's Avatar
 

Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Far from you, I hope.
Posts: 10,085
paid
Send a message via AIM to meatfinger Send a message via MSN to meatfinger
Patriotic Songs as Corporate Worship

Hey all,
So the other day I was at the church and saw a set list from Sunday July 4th. I didn't lead that week (our church has a rotating schedule where each leader leads once a month), but I noticed that the leader filled the set list with patriotic songs like "Star-Spangled Banner," "American the Beautiful," and "God Bless America." I was surprised because I don't think of those as worship songs... I think of them as patriotic songs. I looked up the lyrics to each and found only vague, non-meaningful references to God if any at all.

So what I'm wondering is, do you feel songs like this have a place in corporate worship? Do you use them on "patriotic Sundays" like 4th of July or Memorial Day weekend? I have mixed feelings on this, so I'm curious to see some input from y'all.

__________________
Come help CGR decide the BEST ALBUMS OF THE 00'S. Because we're cooler than a pack of wild narwhals.

meatfinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 07-15-2011, 04:17 PM   #2
Lieutenant Commander
 
slap_j's Avatar
 

Joined: Nov 2002
Location: the U.S.
Posts: 21,818
Well, are you worshiping Jesus or the United States? I'd say to keep the patriotic songs out of the worship service, at least.
__________________

A d A s t r a P e r A l a s P o r c i
slap_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #3
dept. of redundancy dept.
 
rock_show_host's Avatar
 

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,613
I agree. There's nothing wrong with patriotism, but "America the Beautiful" in a worship service? Even on the 4th of July, that seems inappropriate to me.
rock_show_host is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2011, 06:07 PM   #4
Tired of being attacked
 
BillSPrestonEsq's Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Beaverton, Or
Posts: 40,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatfinger View Post
Hey all,
So the other day I was at the church and saw a set list from Sunday July 4th. I didn't lead that week (our church has a rotating schedule where each leader leads once a month), but I noticed that the leader filled the set list with patriotic songs like "Star-Spangled Banner," "American the Beautiful," and "God Bless America." I was surprised because I don't think of those as worship songs... I think of them as patriotic songs. I looked up the lyrics to each and found only vague, non-meaningful references to God if any at all.

So what I'm wondering is, do you feel songs like this have a place in corporate worship? Do you use them on "patriotic Sundays" like 4th of July or Memorial Day weekend? I have mixed feelings on this, so I'm curious to see some input from y'all.
I have always disliked it, especially the battle hymn of the republic, which is an anthem of a genocide. My family, which were actually veterans of the UNION army were butchered under that anthem at their home, only a few survived in that branch of the family. But we never forgot and that anthem has been barred from our family. It always galls me to hear it at church. Not only do the lyrics make Christ a type of the US Army, but its historical context was an ethnic cleansing.

That discomfort long ago led me to a discomfort with that genre being sung in church. Seems a little more emperor worship than conceding the genius of the emperor, which in many cases was all it would have taken for the early martyrs to be set free.
__________________
For this I will be judged.


My Life.
BillSPrestonEsq is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2011, 08:28 PM   #5
ITALICS
Administrator
 
mtlmouth's Avatar
 

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,408
paid
No thanks. I like my church and patriotism separate.
mtlmouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2011, 08:38 PM   #6
Heaven isn't too far away
 
gtrdave's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2004
Location: The First State
Posts: 6,730
Send a message via AIM to gtrdave
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlmouth View Post
No thanks. I like my church and patriotism separate.
Amen.
No offense meant to any military personnel, half of my family and in-laws included, but our worship services have but 1 object of said worship. I don't think it's too much to ask for at least 1 hour and 15 minutes of each week to be spent on giving glory to God alone.
__________________
Lead, follow and get out of the way.

youtube
facebook
cd baby
gtrdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2011, 08:46 PM   #7
Rey de CGR
Administrator
 
DaGeek's Avatar
 

Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 13,500
paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
Amen.
No offense meant to any military personnel, half of my family and in-laws included, but our worship services have but 1 object of said worship. I don't think it's too much to ask for at least 1 hour and 15 minutes of each week to be spent on giving glory to God alone.
As a veteran, let me also add another "amen!" to this . God's way better than the military or America.
__________________
I am most definitely a guy.


Donate blood and save up to three lives! Skeptical or curious about the facts? Please click here and find out from the experts!
DaGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2011, 01:39 AM   #8
Registered User
 

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
All I can really say is Amen to the previous guys. I don't worship the place I live.
__________________
Guitars:
1989 Fender Stratocaster (Corona built)
some kind of really nice sounding old Takamine acoustic
some kind of custom Kramer electric
Amp:
Crate V18
Pedals:
Planet Waves Tuner, Boss DD-20, Boss GE-7, Boss FBM-1, JHS Astro Mess Fuzz, ProCo Rat Distortion, Fulltone OCD, DigiTech Bad Monkey, Visual Sound Open Road, Ernie Ball Volume Pedal


"Ice cream and nachos: two of mankind's finest achievements. (do not mix)" - Jon Foreman


"The first half of my life has scared me half to death" - Matthew Theissen

"Will words define me? I am more than a moment" - Emery


I am now addicted to JHS.
cakirby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2011, 11:53 AM   #9
|Last of the Gang to Die|
 
TheProdigalModern's Avatar
 

Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Archbishopric of Arkansas
Posts: 2,902
From the perspective of other cultures, I have heard of Greek- and Ukranian-descended Americans singing the respective national anthems of those countries in the nave or the narthex after liturgy on certain days, which -- while not exactly a part of the Church's worship -- makes me awfully uncomfortable.
__________________
Disclaimer: Any posts made before Nov. 2010 reflect vastly different stages of my life. I repent for all of them. I am sure this is not the last time I will say it.

[My CGR Blog]

CGR: The Decimation
[A chronicle of CGR's timestream disruption and eventual redemption]
TheProdigalModern is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2011, 12:21 PM   #10
I'm on a horse.
 
Rainer.'s Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle, WA.
Posts: 29,113
Send a message via AIM to Rainer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProdigalModern View Post
From the perspective of other cultures, I have heard of Greek- and Ukranian-descended Americans singing the respective national anthems of those countries in the nave or the narthex after liturgy on certain days, which -- while not exactly a part of the Church's worship -- makes me awfully uncomfortable.
For some groups struggling to maintain ethnic identity after being so far removed from their homeland, the church community is the only close ethnic community they have left. It replaces the village or neighborhood they had at home, and is the only place they have to teach the children especially to remember where they came from, why they are there, and songs are part of that.

Though I personally don't think that patriotic songs should be used in worship, there are some very interesting dynamics that exist in the immigrant churches of America that don't exist in the average church.
__________________
. . . j o n : [ FLICKR \ BLOG ]

Rainer. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2011, 12:36 PM   #11
|Last of the Gang to Die|
 
TheProdigalModern's Avatar
 

Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Archbishopric of Arkansas
Posts: 2,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer. View Post
For some groups struggling to maintain ethnic identity after being so far removed from their homeland, the church community is the only close ethnic community they have left. It replaces the village or neighborhood they had at home, and is the only place they have to teach the children especially to remember where they came from, why they are there, and songs are part of that.
I belong to one of those churches, and to a degree that issue is addressed by allowing for some of the liturgy to be done in their native tongues (Greek/Arabic...but not Lebanese French, except maybe at the Gospel readings at the Paschal Vespers) and maintaining at least some of the traditional musical notation from their homeland.

The issue is to keep an affinity for the homeland from becoming phyletism. Certainly there is a danger in this within Orthodoxy (with our long history of caesaropapism and the more modern phenomenon of ethnic enclaves), but I have seen it more and more in the last 10 years among American Protestants and Catholics as well, especially among Evangelicals.
__________________
Disclaimer: Any posts made before Nov. 2010 reflect vastly different stages of my life. I repent for all of them. I am sure this is not the last time I will say it.

[My CGR Blog]

CGR: The Decimation
[A chronicle of CGR's timestream disruption and eventual redemption]
TheProdigalModern is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2011, 12:42 PM   #12
I'm on a horse.
 
Rainer.'s Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle, WA.
Posts: 29,113
Send a message via AIM to Rainer.
Indeed. It's all a balance. The struggle of church congregations reflects the struggles of its members. For an event as traumatic as getting ripped from your homeland (in my church's case, Vietnam, 1975), immigrant churches tend to be, if anything, ethnically aware in ways that most of America hasn't experienced.
__________________
. . . j o n : [ FLICKR \ BLOG ]

Rainer. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-12-2011, 03:23 PM   #13
Registered User
 

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
Amen.
No offense meant to any military personnel, half of my family and in-laws included, but our worship services have but 1 object of said worship. I don't think it's too much to ask for at least 1 hour and 15 minutes of each week to be spent on giving glory to God alone.
Agreed. In fact, I agree with most every post in this thread.

There are obviously several "patriotic themed" holidays throughout the year. During each of these periods my church does the same. I normally play a rather large part in music selection for each service but have never had the opportunity to voice my feeling toward the issue. I know it's too late to do much about it for this weekend but I'd like to address it. Aside from the obvious prayer leading up to it, how do I go about addressing this with leadership?

I certainly have zero problems with expressing patriotism. I'm a veteran myself and actually still serving. The pastor is a vet, as is most of the church leadership. However, church should be about the worship of God rather than exalting our own interests, regardless if it's love of country or meatloaf. Special programs are one thing. Monopolizing worship is entirely different.

Thanks in advance for the advice. I know this issue will arise again and I really don't want to feel the same way for the 3rd year in a row without my voice being heard.
chad.clifford7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2011, 09:53 AM   #14
Registered User
 

Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 330
agree with all of you... I just can't see it being appropriate in any way.

you want to have a special service on Memorial Day or something like that? fine, in fact, PLEASE do so... remembering how lucky we are to have the religious freedom we enjoy, but it is NOT worship.
__________________
Dark Lord of the Schwartz

Gibson LP Classic Custom
Epi LP Custom
Epi LP Standard (custom)

Boss TU-2 > Dunlop Cry Baby > Loopmaster ABY > MXR Carbon Copy >

Orange Crush Pix CR35LDX
Orange AD30TC Combo
Orange AD30HTC Head
Orange Thunderverb50
Avatar Contemporary 412 V30s/G12Hs
Dark Helmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2016, 11:42 PM   #15
Registered User
 

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1
During each of these periods my church does the same. I normally play a rather large part in music selection for each service but have never had the opportunity to voice my feeling toward the issue. I know it's too late to do much about it for this weekend but I'd like to address it. Aside from the obvious prayer leading up to it, how do I go about addressing this with leadership?
__________________
== www.chess-rivals.com ==
waleeed12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2