[thesteve]

Originally Posted by Kentl

neither do i

but i never go to any of them



but thats the way it should wok to me you making money off of someones hard work with out paying them is wrong

To flip the question though, how many times is someone entitled to get paid for a single product? What amount of payment should they be receiving for said item?

For example, a Fender Stratocaster sold in the late 1950s for somewhere around $250. Today the same guitar would sell for, let's say, $25,000. How much of that increased value do you think would be a fair payment for the hard work that someone (who is probably dead) did at a company 55 years ago?

[Dr. Worm]

Out of curiosity, how do people feel about borrowing a book from a friend? Analogous? (Not in terms of legality, but in terms of ethics?)

[bobthecockroach]

Kentl, you don't seem to understand the difference between licensing and buying. Music is licensed. Cars are bought. Ford has no further rights to a car after they sell it. They don't deserve any more money from it. Music is licensed. You don't own the music when you buy a CD, which is why you cannot make as many copies as you like. You do, however, own the CD itself, and you are free to sell it, AS LONG AS YOU HAVEN'T MADE ANY COPIES.

[Role Modlin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

Out of curiosity, how do people feel about borrowing a book from a friend? Analogous? (Not in terms of legality, but in terms of ethics?)

As long as you don't photocopy or scan the entire book before giving it back...I have no problem with borrowing books.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by thesteve

To flip the question though, how many times is someone entitled to get paid for a single product? What amount of payment should they be receiving for said item?

For example, a Fender Stratocaster sold in the late 1950s for somewhere around $250. Today the same guitar would sell for, let's say, $25,000. How much of that increased value do you think would be a fair payment for the hard work that someone (who is probably dead) did at a company 55 years ago?

as long as someone makes a profit off of your product

to me if a guy makes something he deserves profit fomr it

as for what % i cant say
that takes a whole new turn
for me it be kind of like taxes if you will

certin products desevre more %

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by Leboman

As long as you don't photocopy or scan the entire book before giving it back...I have no problem with borrowing books.

You don't think it seems sort of unfair to the author though? Books don't really have the same re-usability as music does. There may be exceptions with certain people and certain books, but for the majority of us with the majority of books, once you read a book you check it off your list.

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

Out of curiosity, how do people feel about borrowing a book from a friend? Analogous? (Not in terms of legality, but in terms of ethics?)

Originally Posted by Leboman

As long as you don't photocopy or scan the entire book before giving it back...I have no problem with borrowing books.

This is the sort of thing I was getting at when I brought up the issue of obeying the spirit of the law while not necessarily following the letter of the law. If someone loans me a book and it's not one I would have gone out and bought anyway no one's losing any money. I have no problem borrowing and loaning books for personal use. Now on the other hand our Sunday school class will often do a book study. We'll order one book per household. Now if we just ordered one book for the class and shared it or made copies that would be a whole different thing than borrowing a book from a friend. IMO

[Role Modlin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

You don't think it seems sort of unfair to the author though? Books don't really have the same re-usability as music does. There may be exceptions with certain people and certain books, but for the majority of us with the majority of books, once you read a book you check it off your list.

I don't know. Do libraries pay "licensing fees" in order to loan out books free of charge?

Interesting question...for sure.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

This is the sort of thing I was getting at when I brought up the issue of obeying the spirit of the law while not necessarily following the letter of the law. If someone loans me a book and it's not one I would have gone out and bought anyway no one's losing any money. I have no problem borrowing and loaning books for personal use. Now on the other hand our Sunday school class will often do a book study. We'll order one book per household. Now if we just ordered one book for the class and shared it or made copies that would be a whole different thing than borrowing a book from a friend. IMO

you know pirate say the exact same thing?

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by Kentl

you know pirate say the exact same thing?

No Kentl. I'm not taking ownership of the book or making my own copy. I read it and return it. It would be like if I said "here, you can listen to my new Metallica CD, just give it back to me tomorrow". That would not be the same as an illegal down load.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

No Kentl. I'm not taking ownership of the book or making my own copy. I read it and return it. It would be like if I said "here, you can listen to my new Metallica CD, just give it back to me tomorrow". That would not be the same as an illegal down load.

No, I'm just saying you really should not say "they would not have made money anyways"
because thats the excuse the pirates sue


not saying what your doing is wrong

just watch out what you say

you sound like a pirate then

[bobthecockroach]

Something to remember with books is that they've been around a very long time. So have libraries and book clubs. What can and can't be done with a book is pretty well known. Surely by now publishers are figuring library usage into the cost of their books, directly or indirectly. Same for borrowing. Before Napster, however, music couldn't realistically be shared a million times. There's only so many people for whom you're willing to take the 10 minutes to copy a CD and physically deliver it to them. Sharing a song peer to peer, however, takes no time, effort or money. Sharing books still takes effort. Photocopying books is almost prohibitively inconvenient for most people. Sharing books still involves the risk of loss (much unlike copying CDs). Libraries have limited selection and don't have anywhere near enough capacity on popular books to meet demand. In short, the system works for books.

Remember too that many libraries loan CDs and DVDs. Most people are simply unwilling to put up with the inconvenience of a library. They'd rather buy stuff on Amazon if they legally buy at all. Again, without peer to peer sharing of digital media, the system works. Sharing physical CDs and DVDs is not a problem. You buy the physical media. As long as you don't have your own copy while it's shared out, there's no harm.

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by Kentl

No, I'm just saying you really should not say "they would not have made money anyways"
because thats the excuse the pirates sue


not saying what your doing is wrong

just watch out what you say

you sound like a pirate then

I rrrr a pirate. I just don't down load illegally. You are right though, that is one of the justifications that pirates use.

[1/2-Fast Player]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

Sharing books still takes effort. Photocopying books is almost prohibitively inconvenient for most people. Sharing books still involves the risk of loss (much unlike copying CDs). Libraries have limited selection and don't have anywhere near enough capacity on popular books to meet demand. In short, the system works for books.

Yes, but ebooks are negating almost everything you said here.

We're trying to adapt old business models to new technologies. The technologies will eventually force the business models to change.

[scared2mosh]

Originally Posted by 1/2-Fast Player

Yes, but ebooks are negating almost everything you said here.

We're trying to adapt old business models to new technologies. The technologies will eventually force the business models to change.

precisely. as I said before out entire entertainment industry is "post scarcity". the same rules and regulations just dont work.