[OiBoyz]

I was actually looking forward to talking about the multicultural church stuff that Jon was telling us about. Perhaps we could have a separate topic for it.

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by Kentl

here's weher we disagree
for me a relatiship requires two not just one

...

Umm if there is no feeling then it is a lie

you know those couples that go to bed at night not talkin to one another?
they dont have feelings anymorte

how about those ones who devoice?
they dont ahve feelings any more either
feelins are evreything

Two questions:

If your feelings disappear in a relationship, does it make that relationship meaningless to your life?

If you married someone and then didn't have "feelings" anymore, would you divorce this person?


I think if you asked anyone who has been married for any length of time, they would tell you that marriage is about far more than "feelings". Go ahead, ask them.

I agree sadily the church dose not do this (or a lot)

lets say that one church dose not do that
but another one dose
the kid wants to go there
the parents say no
then what?

The problem with this view is that the church is not an institution. It's not what people are doing. It's not the service. It's not the building. It's not the activities. It's none of that.

The church is the people in it.

I'm going to reiterate what I said real fast. People in the church should be earnestly praying for one another. Diving deeper and deeper into understanding the person of God as revealed in the Word. Being honest and accountable to one other, teaching and rebuking and loving on one another.

If the people in your church aren't doing that, then you shouldn't just ditch them. Do you see the problem here? There is a need that needs to be met. You abandoning the problem doesn't help anything at all in that church, and going to a church that "better suits your needs" based on that rationale is a completely selfish idea. And selfishness is completely adverse to the idea of Christian community.

The real answer in this situation before leaving a church is to try to rebuild that community by praying for that community and reaching out to individuals in that community. "I don't want to deal with this church anymore, so I'm leaving" is the wrong reason for leaving the church, as Supa's story points out.

help them all the time, I don't know if you read but i help people a lot
to the point where i know im getting used i still help them
im to nice with love and all that
and honestly if we met in person i would not be arguing right now, I'd be helping with what ever you need

I grew up with a dad who hates religion, but i still loved evrey one even before i was a christain

I'm not saying I'm perfect I'm far form it

But i would NEVER NEVER NEVEr leave someone in need

I will always help if i can

Okay, my point is, if your church is struggling with the truth, why wouldn't you try to help that church? You're advising leaving the church, which should really only be the last resort. You should say something like this:

"If I was in a church that needed help getting on track with God, I would help them all the time.
To the point where I know im getting used I still help them
I'm too nice with love and all that
And honestly if I was in a church in person I would not be arguing right now, I'd be helping with what ever the church needed

I grew up with a dad who hates religion, but i still loved evrey one even before I was a Christian

I'm not saying I'm perfect I'm far from it

But I would NEVER NEVER NEVER leave a church in need

I will always help if I can"

[SecretAgentRat]

Originally Posted by Kentl

sorry but show me where it says once your 18 you can disobey what your parents say

if the parent says you have to stay here
in till they say other wise you have to
no mater how old you are
you are always your parent child and you still ahve to obey them

the age 18 is a western age not a christain age

All I know is the bible talks about "acting"
and thats what many kids do when parents force them to go

I think you misunderstood me. I never once said you can "disobey" your parents at any age. I was simply clarifying my use of the word "child" as being anyone under the age of 18 because I believe that once one becomes an adult the relationship and how a person honors their parents begins to change.

What you say, however, appears (to me) to contradict what you have been saying in your previous posts. Previously you were saying that it is okay for children to disregard their parents' wishes if they choose to leave a church because they cannot "feel" God, am I correct? Here you seem to say that children should NOT go against their parents' wishes. I am confused as to what you truly believe. Should parents have the authority to insist that their children attend church with them or not?

for me feeling god is worshiping him
hearing his teachings
and agreeing with the teachings

Okay. No one has an issue with anyone wanting to worship God, hear his teachings or be in a church that is Biblical in its teachings. What is throwing us is your use of the word "feel." Feelings are things that come and go based on circumstance, mood, weather, what-have-you. If we base anything on feelings, then we are in for trouble once those feelings go away. That is why nothing, not marriage, friendship, or a relationship with God should be based only on "feelings." Feelings have their place, but there is a much deeper relationship to be found beyond those emotional responses.

but dont you also give them time and space and know when its time to leave for a quick breath?

Sometimes, and sometimes not. How is that relevant to this conversation?

oh yes they can
if you grow up in a hcurch where you go to hell unless you pay

Pay? As in tithe?

cant you blame the church for false teaching?
history is full of churches with false teachings even today
so yes you can blame a church
and for me it was

Yes, there are churches that teach falsely, and that is a shame. However, I don't think we can blame a stale relationship with God solely on our church. We have the word of God at our fingertips. In this age of technology we also have slews of online sermons, worship music, blogs, books, etc.
If a child truly believes that they are receiving false teaching in the church and yet their parents still require that they attend with the family, that does not have to stunt that child's relationship with God. God can and will use their willingness to honor their parents.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Kentl

if the kid says i dont want to go to church becuse i dont really worship god there

Then the child is living in sin. You should be worshiping God in the bathtub, on the roof while roofing, and at all times. A failure to worship is a failure to recognize God for who he is, and a failure to realize your place in worship.

and you tell them tough

you are saying fopr them to fake it

No, you may be saying that. I am saying that if Job could praise the name of the Lord after Satan directly attacked his body, killed his kids and destroyed his wealth, going to a building with bad music and nobody you know is really a trite complaint and a small price to pay for showing the love of God by obedience. In other words, where you are and where the music is, and where your friends are is irrelevant.

if you dont feel like god deserves it

Then you don't believe in the God of the Bible. Period.

and you just sing the songs
is it worshuip? no!!!
feelings are everything

Of course not, but if you believe you are the defining factor of whether God is worth it, then you do not believe in the true God. If you sing songs you don't believe, that is not worship, it is a mockery of worship. But your feelings have nothing to do with it, nor does the location. Your beliefs have everything about it.