[Ambient]

Ok, so I was just wondering what amps have the best clean tones and take pedals well. I am really into ambient sounds and volume swelling. A good example of what I want my tone to be like would be the band Jesus Culture. I have a Micro Pog already, which produces amazing 12-string sounds. I am getting a Boss Rv-5, and hopefully an Eventide Timefactor.

I'm struggling with what amp to get though... I've narrowed it down to a Fender Blues Jr., Vox Ac30C2, Fender Twin Reverb, and Matchless Chieftain. I would like to get an amp that will last me awhile, but don't want it to cost me an arm and a leg to get.

I play electric guitar at my church, and I've researched each one very much and can see that the Blues Jr. has the best clean for the price, but the Matchless takes pedals better, and the twin has more wattage and can get a better distortion, as well as the Ac30. Since I play at church, I need something that has a great clean AND can still rock some of the more overdriven worship songs.

The Matchless has el-34 power tubes, the Ac30 and Blues Jr. have el-84's, and the Twin has 6L6's. What the difference? Any help or knowledge would be appreciated greatly!!! Especially if you own one of these

[bread man]

Sounds like you've thought about it a fair bit. To be honest, you'll do well with any of those amps; they all have plenty of headroom and all should go well with pedals (though the Vox might be a bit more fussy than the others). Depending on the size of your church, I'd stay away from the higher wattage amps since you're probably not going to be playing too loudly. A lot of my favourite ambient guitarists use big amps like Marshalls and Hiwatts. Personally I've been using a Blackheart Little Giant with a homemade 2x12 cab for over a year now and I'm more than happy with it. I'm not playing at church at the moment, just recording ambient music at home, and it works perfectly for my needs.

I suggest playing all the amps with your gear and then just going with whatever you like the best.

[Rainer.]

Yeah, I have always liked the Marshall type drive for epic Sigur Ros type ambiance. AC30 might be brilliant for my needs, but it's up to you.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by Ambient

Ok, so I was just wondering what amps have the best clean tones and take pedals well. I am really into ambient sounds and volume swelling. A good example of what I want my tone to be like would be the band Jesus Culture. I have a Micro Pog already, which produces amazing 12-string sounds. I am getting a Boss Rv-5, and hopefully an Eventide Timefactor.

I'm struggling with what amp to get though... I've narrowed it down to a Fender Blues Jr., Vox Ac30C2, Fender Twin Reverb, and Matchless Chieftain. I would like to get an amp that will last me awhile, but don't want it to cost me an arm and a leg to get.

I play electric guitar at my church, and I've researched each one very much and can see that the Blues Jr. has the best clean for the price, but the Matchless takes pedals better, and the twin has more wattage and can get a better distortion, as well as the Ac30. Since I play at church, I need something that has a great clean AND can still rock some of the more overdriven worship songs.

The Matchless has el-34 power tubes, the Ac30 and Blues Jr. have el-84's, and the Twin has 6L6's. What the difference? Any help or knowledge would be appreciated greatly!!! Especially if you own one of these

I've owned and played gigs with all four of these amps and they are all very different beasts.

The Blues Jr seems like an odd entry in your list. The other three amps you list are in another league. I've never been a fan of the BJ. If you're looking for good clean tones, the BJ is going to sound very boxy and flat, especially compared to something like a Matchless. Also, the BJ's stock speaker is junk, I would figure in some extra money for a better one, and by that point you might as well hold out a few extra bucks and pick up a used Bassman or Deluxe Reverb which are far superior amps in every way if the Fender sound is what you're looking for.

The Twin is the highest wattage amp you listed, but wattage doesn't mean much in most situations. The only times you'll need anything over 50 watts is if you are 1) playing a lot of metal, or 2) you are playing stadiums without a PA. Twins are known for an absolutely gorgeous clean tone that is big and fat and has a nice compression to it. The downside to a big high powered amp is that you need to get to ear-bleed levels to get it in its sweet spot. At lower levels it can sound thin and wimpy. Also, Blackface Fender amps aren't a very good choice for distortion. The scooped mids, bright top end and round flabby low end can make distortion pedals sound nasal and shrill, combined with the round low end that gives you no definition for that low end chunk. The Twin itself is known for staying very clean until it hits 10 on the volume, so unless you're playing HUGE venues you're not gonna be able to get distortion from the amp. Even when it does distort it's more of a dirty overdrive than a distortion (Listen to the Rolling Stones Jumpin Jack Flash).

The AC30 and Matchless are similar amps in many ways. They take pedals very much the same and they have a similar eq and response, both having a lot of front end compression, a tight low end response and a nice midrange. The Matchless will be a little more Marshall in the way it breaks up, has more harmonic comlexity to it's tone and has a bigger, tighter low end. It costs about 2-3x what the Vox does and sounds like it too.

As for how the amps take pedals it's really personal opinion. Many people prefer the way Fender amps take pedals, many prefer the way Marshall's take pedals and many prefer the way Vox take pedals. But they do all take pedals very differently. Fender's have the lowest front end compression and pedals all sound very smooth and even through them. The Vox and Matchless have higher compression and some people feel they make pedals sound fizzy and harsh. Other people like the sound though. Marshall amps are always somewhere in the middle.

It's kinda odd to see a Blues Junior and a Matchless on the same list... The Matchless costs about 10x more than a Blues Junior and is just a far superior amp to everything else on your list. If you're willing to pay $3,000 for an amp it's the obvious choice. It costs 10x more and it sounds like it. If Fender is more your thing though, a Twin is an easy call over the BJ if you can swing it but you might also want to look at some different amps like a Bassman or a 5E3 Deluxe if you don't need the high wattage for your next stadium gig. The Tweed Fender amps have a flatter response and work better with distortion pedals than a Twin. They also have a very nice overdrive when you push them hard.

Another consideration for ambient sounds is running a stereo rig. FWIW the best ambient sound I ever had was with a Bad Cat Black Cat and a Fender Pro Junior running in stereo. The PJ is so cool because it's got a big midrange sound that fills in that sonic space very well when used with another amp. It also works extremely well with a Deluxe Reverb. It's like adding a big midrange control to your amp and nothing sounds bigger than running delay, reverb and mod pedals in stereo. It also gives you the ability to run different delays set for different times simultaneously. For example setting one to a quarter note through one amp, and another for a .8th through the other amp.

[Ambient]

Thanks so much for the help guys! So the front end compression makes the Vox fuzz? Hmmm, couln't that be fixed with the help of an additional compressor, such as the Keeley or MXR Dynacomp?

Could an attenuator help fix the wattage problem?

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by Ambient

Thanks so much for the help guys! So the front end compression makes the Vox fuzz? Hmmm, couln't that be fixed with the help of an additional compressor, such as the Keeley or MXR Dynacomp?

Could an attenuator help fix the wattage problem?

The front end compresson makes things like overdrive and modulation pedals sound different into a vox than into, say, a Fender. Some don't like the fuzzy/fizzy texture the input stage of the Vox gives pedals, others do. Adding an additional compressor won't do anything to change the character of the input stage of the amp.

An attenuator could help fix the wattage problem, but then the question is why?

Is there something about the sound of an overdriven Twin that is specifically what you're looking for?

I just don't see much point in getting a big 100 watt amp that isn't really known for it's nice breakup sound and then sticking an attenuator in front of it... Why not get something that IS known for having a nice breakup and is smaller and more practical and then stick an attenuator in front of that? There are several amps out there that are well known to have a very nice tube breakup tone, and it makes a lot of sense to stick an attenuator in front of one of these to get that nice breakup and lower volume levels. The Twin isn't known for its breakup tone in the first place. It's known for it's clean tone. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are other amps that would be a way better choice than a Twin if this is what you're looking for.

[Ambient]

Ok gotcha. Sorry, I'm not very experienced with amp knowledge.

What is the sole pupose for running two amps at the same time? I've always wondered that...

Also, do you have the Bad Cat BC combo? Or the BC-50 head?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

The front end compresson makes things like overdrive and modulation pedals sound different into a vox than into, say, a Fender. Some don't like the fuzzy/fizzy texture the input stage of the Vox gives pedals, others do. Adding an additional compressor won't do anything to change the character of the input stage of the amp.

An attenuator could help fix the wattage problem, but then the question is why?

Is there something about the sound of an overdriven Twin that is specifically what you're looking for?

I just don't see much point in getting a big 100 watt amp that isn't really known for it's nice breakup sound and then sticking an attenuator in front of it... Why not get something that IS known for having a nice breakup and is smaller and more practical and then stick an attenuator in front of that? There are several amps out there that are well known to have a very nice tube breakup tone, and it makes a lot of sense to stick an attenuator in front of one of these to get that nice breakup and lower volume levels. The Twin isn't known for its breakup tone in the first place. It's known for it's clean tone. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are other amps that would be a way better choice than a Twin if this is what you're looking for.

Personally, I would go for a bassman 50 or a vox. Personally, I would go vox because I love the way my vox inspired amp sounds with those pedals the OP is looking at. (I have all of them except for the reverb pedal and like the sound with my vox amp .)

I, like Metropolis would drop the blues jr. from your list. I also have one other thing against twins... They weigh a freaking ton. The bassman 50 does not have a loop, which for me might be a big deal with delay.

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Personally, I would go for a bassman 50 or a vox. Personally, I would go vox because I love the way my vox inspired amp sounds with those pedals the OP is looking at. (I have all of them except for the reverb pedal and like the sound with my vox amp .)

I, like Metropolis would drop the blues jr. from your list. I also have one other thing against twins... They weigh a freaking ton. The bassman 50 does not have a loop, which for me might be a big deal with delay.

True... Doesn't having an effects loop cut any humming or buzzing sounds?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Ambient

True... Doesn't having an effects loop cut any humming or buzzing sounds?

No.

It seems to be a misconception, but that would be a noise gate. There are two main types of loops, serial and parellel. One puts the signal in a parellel chain for the effected signal and the other inserts the loop between where all of your signal passes through


Basically

Serial your signal goes preamp =>loop=>Power amp.

Parellel you have two chains sometimes blendable that run parelle to each other.

preamp =>loop=>Power amp.
preamp=>power amp.

Now if you insert a noise gate into the preamp you can clean up any hiss when you are not playing from pedals or the preamp, but for low-mid gain that isn't needed usually.

I like my delay after my preamp. I don't think Metropolis does, but we are not going for the same sound. (I think both of us are fairly well versed in getting good tones, using wildly divergent techniques and gear)

All my amps with serial loops require you to run at line level, which the timefactor does.

[gopats1479]

The Vox gives you more of a newsboys clean tone, if that helps.

[Ambient]

Oh ok! Good to know! Thanks guys