[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

But that's discussing performance, not equipment. I would say that would be analogous to discussion of watching a good performance and the quality of the concert production.

The point I'm trying to make is that, for guitarists, music seems to be the only art I can think of where artists care more about the equipment used to produce a final product, than they do about the final product itself. No one looks at a painting and discusses the type of brushes used, or reads a book obsessing over the kind of typewriter it was written with.

I think you just see that because you're completely immersed in the guitar culture. I think other artists actually do talk a lot about their tools. I think painters talk about brushes, canvas, types of paint, etc. A lot of photographers will see a picture and the first thing they want to know is what kind of camera and lens were used. Then they want to know about shutter speed and all that other stuff that only photographers know about. I think it's pretty normal.

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

But that's discussing performance, not equipment. I would say that would be analogous to discussion of watching a good performance and the quality of the concert production.

The point I'm trying to make is that, for guitarists, music seems to be the only art I can think of where artists care more about the equipment used to produce a final product, than they do about the final product itself. No one looks at a painting and discusses the type of brushes used, or reads a book obsessing over the kind of typewriter it was written with.

But you of all people should know the excessive lengths photographers will go in discussing their camera gear. (For the record, I think photographers are way worse than guitarists in this respect. Haha.)

It is definitely relevant to a painting what is being used to paint it. A soft watercolor may be like a clean jazz box, while a brash oil painting may be like a Les Paul through a dirty amp. Tone is a guitarist's medium in which to translate abstract music into the concrete experience of sound. The book analogy falls apart merely because reading is an abstract activity where the experience is purely intellectual. Audio and visual arts, however have tactile existences that do not afford the liberty of being free from the medium in which they are presented.

The final product is not merely conceptual, but it is a concept translated into experience, which is mediated by the physical existence of the sound being produced. You cannot necessarily divorce the music from the medium on which it is being presented.

It is, of course fair to say that occasionally the medium's role is excessively pored over, usually by people with not enough technical skill to properly harness the medium, however it is also fair to point out when, perhaps, a change in the medium will offer a more pleasing physical manifestation of the music. No gear is bad gear, but sometimes it is inappropriate gear.

And I am thinking about this too much. Haha

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

But you of all people should know the excessive lengths photographers will go in discussing their camera gear. (For the record, I think photographers are way worse than guitarists in this respect. Haha.)

It is definitely relevant to a painting what is being used to paint it. A soft watercolor may be like a clean jazz box, while a brash oil painting may be like a Les Paul through a dirty amp. Tone is a guitarist's medium in which to translate abstract music into the concrete experience of sound. The book analogy falls apart merely because reading is an abstract activity where the experience is purely intellectual. Audio and visual arts, however have tactile existences that do not afford the liberty of being free from the medium in which they are presented.

The final product is not merely conceptual, but it is a concept translated into experience, which is mediated by the physical existence of the sound being produced. You cannot necessarily divorce the music from the medium on which it is being presented.

It is, of course fair to say that occasionally the medium's role is excessively pored over, usually by people with not enough technical skill to properly harness the medium, however it is also fair to point out when, perhaps, a change in the medium will offer a more pleasing physical manifestation of the music. No gear is bad gear, but sometimes it is inappropriate gear.

And I am thinking about this too much. Haha

I thing some gear is bad gear...

any guitar that slices open my finger with its frets, or an amp that doesn't produce a usable sound is IMO bad gear. Generally most of the truly bad gear I have encountered is defective. Either that or it amplified mostly white noise anyway...

But if someone wants a grab and go solution, that is pretty easy.

Oiboyz, you want a gretsch. I know you like newsboys, but if I knew what sound exactly you were shooting for, I bet we could find an amp to suit your needs.

Basically, IMO, what most guitarists need to know about tone and amps is this.

1) If you have a tube amp, treat it like there are light bulbs in the back, because tubes are very similar.
2) If it makes no noise, check your plug, and the light. If the light is on and the amp is on, make sure your speaker is plugged in. If it is, it might be a tube gone bad
3) Do not panic. Look to see if one of the little light bulb thingies isnt turning on or is busted. replace with a spare.
4) Learn to use your eq!!!!! If it sounds like a knife got jammed through your ear, turn down the highs. If it sounds like a woof of a mastiff, turn down the lows. If it sounds like playing through a megaphone, turn up the lows. If it sounds like mud, turn up the highs.

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I thing some gear is bad gear...

any guitar that slices open my finger with its frets, or an amp that doesn't produce a usable sound is IMO bad gear. Generally most of the truly bad gear I have encountered is defective. Either that or it amplified mostly white noise anyway...

Ah. Perhaps from a utilitarian perspective, yes. I was thinking purely tonally.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Ah. Perhaps from a utilitarian perspective, yes. I was thinking purely tonally.

I am thinking as a purchaser, some stuff just sucks. I would also add to the list of bad gear anything rather likely to start a fire or electrocute you. But I think most of the stuff I would categorize as unusable is either dangerous, or trash. Tonally, I think I would agree, for the most part.

I have some pickups for instance, that are junk. You will get radio stations far louder than any note you play with them installed. If you are playing guitar, worthless, the radio, maybe not so worthless.

I agree we tend to make things too complex.

I am a total gearhead who should spend more time playing/building.

But truth be told, an amp and a delay is what I use 95% of the time. Its easy to pawn off your gear as the reason why you suck, much more so than your own lack of practice. At least that is something I am guilty of.

[to_be_released]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Basically, IMO, what most guitarists need to know about tone and amps is this.

1) If you have a tube amp, treat it like there are light bulbs in the back, because tubes are very similar.
2) If it makes no noise, check your plug, and the light. If the light is on and the amp is on, make sure your speaker is plugged in. If it is, it might be a tube gone bad
3) Do not panic. Look to see if one of the little light bulb thingies isnt turning on or is busted. replace with a spare.
4) Learn to use your eq!!!!! If it sounds like a knife got jammed through your ear, turn down the highs. If it sounds like a woof of a mastiff, turn down the lows. If it sounds like playing through a megaphone, turn up the lows. If it sounds like mud, turn up the highs.

Well, item two on this list does capture the question that sparked this thread, in a way (make sure your speaker is plugged in). I think I was trying to get at lack of knowledge about very basic common sense things, rather than trying to suggest that everyone who plays guitar needs to learn as much as they can about the way there gear works.

I do however enjoy learning more about all things guitar (and amp). I can also vouch for the comments about photographers being gear heads (I work with one) and can also add that my graphic designer girlfriend does take great note of paper stocks and printing quality.