[scared2mosh]

Originally Posted by tlj009

No one dies wealthy. But perhaps you can live wealthy until you die.

What I meant by that was retiring into a higher standard of living and leaving money to your kids. But yeah. I didnt phrase that quite right.

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by Cold War Kid

Thanks for the support, one support, rest haters

Haters? Everyone here has been pretty supportive, really. They've given you their experiences and some different options you might want to consider. And most of it has been pretty good advice.

My big question is whether or not your job gives you benefits. $10/hr with health insurance is very reasonable to live on at your age, and if you're happy doing what you do, then you have every reason to be pretty content right now until you grow up and your goals start to change. If you don't have insurance, it makes your position far more precarious.

I finished high school without paying much attention to it, and went to college because I was supposed to. (FYI, there are plenty of hot college girls with tats and piercings, and the further you get from high school, the less cliques and stereotypes really seem to matter or even apply anyways. Not considering college because you don't like "preppy" girls has been one of the only truly stupid things you've said in this thread.) I dropped out of college after a year and did what I wanted to do. I traveled all over the world, had amazing experiences, and learned more than I ever have in any stage of my life. It was that decision that largely made me the man I am today. The high school - college - carreer path isn't going to work for everyone, you have to find what works for you. Find something you're good at, you enjoy doing, and you find fulfilling.

For what it's worth, I eventually did go back to college after I grew up some and figured out my goals, and am now a teacher.

Congrats on the GRE scores, by the way. Nice work!

[BillSPrestonEsq]

I think you are headed for disaster.

Why?

Simply put, you didn't apply yourself to stuff you didn't like. You have chosen to stack the odds against yourself, but wish to justify your decision not to try based on not liking something.

I grew up poor, was kicked out at 17 and lived for years on my wits and going through college. It is not easy. Step one in actually making things in your life work is realizing that to survive, you will have to do many things you hate doing. I worked one summer as a roofer in the Mojave desert. If ever a job was hated, that one was. I have been a janitor. I have had to clean people's poop up and clean up after wild office Christmas parties, and that is just a part of life.

When you choose to stack the odds against yourself, you have to face things down and not care if you like or enjoy things to a very large degree. You do what you have to to survive. Sometimes that might be scrubbing toilets for forklift operators.

Also, all this talk of girls and tattoos is funny. I was young. I was way edgy, still am edgier than most. I don't have a single piercing or tattoo. In a lot of ways that actually is more edgy than having tats. Most of my friends are fairly rough looking and heavily tatted and most people just assume I have some.

I am almost 30 and I have been down the road you are on, only I was better paid 15 years ago. You are choosing a really tough path, so you better toughen up and prepare to do what you don't enjoy. Be prepared to maybe have periods of time where you live out of a car or something,(spoken from experience) because you are living life without a safety net and everybody falls.

Money goes way faster when you live on your own.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Cold War Kid

Ever since I was a young kid I had problems with school, grades/behavior. It just didn't mix with me, I hated the very idea of being institutionalized, even at a young age. I took a test as a kid that could of gotten me into the "gifted" classes, I passed that test, but still as a young kid hated the idea of school, I wanted nothing to do with it. So i turned it down.

Hi William. I really applaud your willingness to leave school and go it on your own. Really I do. I'm glad you don't mind living poor, and that you are already working at something on your own without having to go through high school or college or whatever. That's one path that is for some people. It's also a path that can get you stuck in $300,000 of debt at age thirty with a law degree that's only earning you $40,000/year, or your parents invest $50,000 to make you an engineer just to see you fired every 18 months because the project you've been working on is finished, all the while you spend 80 hours per week in a cubicle and hate your life. (College can also turn out well, of course, but the point is that it doesn't always. It's just a key to open doors.)

For now, go enjoy life. In a couple of years you'll save up some bank and maybe get a little bit antsy. That's a great time to go start a business or go through trade school. Professional school isn't for everyone, and in fact so many people go through professional school that there's a lot of untapped opportunity elsewhere. Ever think about being a chef? That's the only environment I've ever worked in that was more macho than the construction gig I used to have. It is fast-paced, hands-on, and loads of fun. And there are plenty of other careers that don't require you to be able to do boring school stuff -- just look at the great lists J and TenWatt give you below!

Or maybe instead of listening to somebody else telling you to do stuff you don't think is worthwhile, you go into business for yourself. I have a job that's not based on my college degree at all, and I love it. I basically started a business. I set my own hours and take vacation whenever I want to. I do everything myself unless I hire somebody else to do it for me. Every time I do something, I do it the way I think is best and know exactly why it needs to be done. If I lose money, I've got no one to blame but myself. But if I do a good job, I make money. At the end of the day I don't look back at just a bunch of data I processed that went into some machine somewhere and barely matters. Instead, at the end of the day I know exactly what was accomplished. That's a great feeling, being connected to the actual products of your work.

So I encourage you -- enjoy life! Have fun with what you're doing now, maybe travel the country picking up odd jobs with nothing but a backpack. Save up for a plane trip to Europe or South America and enjoy some time there. And at some point in the future, look for prospects that don't require you to keep your nose in some weird book that seems soooo boring. Learn a trade or start a business. Your creativity, imagination -- the adventure that is LIFE -- is the limit!

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

Anyway, I don't advocate dropping out, but I think the education system is flawed. I worked for a few years at a Job Corps. It's a federally funded trade school for at risk low income youth 16-22 years old. Students got anywhere from 6 months to 2 years of training in a wide variety of fields. To list a few: IT, nurses assistant, dental assistant, electrician, carpentry, office technology (OK, secretary ), auto/diesel mechanic, welding, seamanship, and much more. I think these kinds of programs should be incorporated into our general education system and be available to everyone. I know some schools already have some joint venture efforts with community colleges. I'd like to see more of that. I think sometime around the beginning of 11th grade students have a pretty good idea if they are bound for a 4 year university or if they are more trade minded. If they are trade minded why not let them start then?

Originally Posted by tenwatt

My father owned a junkyard and demanded that I either work there or somewhere else from the time I was 12. By the time I graduated I had worked as a mechanic, a wrecker driver, a heating and air conditioning repairman, a roofer, and miscellaneous construction and farming jobs. I often got off the school bus at the location of my job. When I was 17 I was making twice the current minimum wage and was STILL in high school. By the time I graduated I already had over $15,000 in a bank account. I also had already bought stock and an IRA.

I went to college for a couple, excruciating years and finally dropped out of college. To make a long story short I’m now a designer, working one step below engineers, without any degrees or debt. I design chemical plants, oil refineries, and food and beverage facilities. I make enough money that when my wife and I buy cars, we pay cash for them. We bought three acres of land and paid cash for that. We are 100% debt free and I haven’t taken out a loan since I was 16 (my dad co-signed a small loan at that time). I’ve never been fired, laid-off, or unemployed.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Cold War Kid

birth control and condoms.

Whoops. Just when I was thinking such nice things about you I notice this. Sure, I get that you don't want to be under the thumb of some standardized test in high school. I get that you don't want to be married or have kids. That makes perfect sense. But look, if you just look at girls as a way to get your rocks off then you should just turn to porn. Sound pathetic? Good. Because it is. And so is this. You've got nothing of worth in your life so you'll just use some chick to make you feel better about your pitiful existence. If you're just out to use women then you need to buck up and be a man. Stop being selfish and disgusting. Yes, go have an adventure in life! Yes, you don't have to be chained to a professional, married existence at age 17! But have some respect like a real man, don't be pathetic. You're better than that. And she's better than that. Life is a wonderful adventure! It's better than this!

[Cold War Kid]

Originally Posted by Chrysostom

Hi William. I really applaud your willingness to leave school and go it on your own. Really I do. I'm glad you don't mind living poor, and that you are already working at something on your own without having to go through high school or college or whatever. That's one path that is for some people. It's also a path that can get you stuck in $300,000 of debt at age thirty with a law degree that's only earning you $40,000/year, or your parents invest $50,000 to make you an engineer just to see you fired every 18 months because the project you've been working on is finished, all the while you spend 80 hours per week in a cubicle and hate your life. (College can also turn out well, of course, but the point is that it doesn't always. It's just a key to open doors.)

For now, go enjoy life. In a couple of years you'll save up some bank and maybe get a little bit antsy. That's a great time to go start a business or go through trade school. Professional school isn't for everyone, and in fact so many people go through professional school that there's a lot of untapped opportunity elsewhere. Ever think about being a chef? That's the only environment I've ever worked in that was more macho than the construction gig I used to have. It is fast-paced, hands-on, and loads of fun. And there are plenty of other careers that don't require you to be able to do boring school stuff -- just look at the great lists J and TenWatt give you below!

Or maybe instead of listening to somebody else telling you to do stuff you don't think is worthwhile, you go into business for yourself. I have a job that's not based on my college degree at all, and I love it. I basically started a business. I set my own hours and take vacation whenever I want to. I do everything myself unless I hire somebody else to do it for me. Every time I do something, I do it the way I think is best and know exactly why it needs to be done. If I lose money, I've got no one to blame but myself. But if I do a good job, I make money. At the end of the day I don't look back at just a bunch of data I processed that went into some machine somewhere and barely matters. Instead, at the end of the day I know exactly what was accomplished. That's a great feeling, being connected to the actual products of your work.

So I encourage you -- enjoy life! Have fun with what you're doing now, maybe travel the country picking up odd jobs with nothing but a backpack. Save up for a plane trip to Europe or South America and enjoy some time there. And at some point in the future, look for prospects that don't require you to keep your nose in some weird book that seems soooo boring. Learn a trade or start a business. Your creativity, imagination -- the adventure that is LIFE -- is the limit!

Thanks dude, your post made my day.

[Cold War Kid]

Originally Posted by Chrysostom

Whoops. Just when I was thinking such nice things about you I notice this. Sure, I get that you don't want to be under the thumb of some standardized test in high school. I get that you don't want to be married or have kids. That makes perfect sense. But look, if you just look at girls as a way to get your rocks off then you should just turn to porn. Sound pathetic? Good. Because it is. And so is this. You've got nothing of worth in your life so you'll just use some chick to make you feel better about your pitiful existence. If you're just out to use women then you need to buck up and be a man. Stop being selfish and disgusting. Yes, go have an adventure in life! Yes, you don't have to be chained to a professional, married existence at age 17! But have some respect like a real man, don't be pathetic. You're better than that. And she's better than that. Life is a wonderful adventure! It's better than this!

I have a major respect for women. Trust me.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by Cold War Kid

I have a major respect for women. Trust me.

I hope you can see how it's difficult to see this, when you're referring to them as b*tches and making posts like the one quoted above....

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Cold War Kid

I have a major respect for women. Trust me.

Seriously bro. I know you're being sincere with this. I know you've got lots of reasons -- GOOD reasons -- for saying it. You probably do have major respect for women, especially compared to the folks around you. *Sometimes*. But if the first thing you know to say about girls is that you like ☺☺☺☺ing ☺☺☺☺☺es then there's a deeper problem. And I think this is part of a bigger shared temperament in our generation. (Generations? We're ten years apart, anyways.) I had seen hours of hardcore porn before I even hit puberty, and things just escalated after that -- this is not an uncommon experience. So when we think women we think sex.

Now, I think sex is a great thing. And I'm not just backpedaling here -- I used sex as an extended example in the Sunday school class I taught this weekend. I'm what you might call an "earthy" guy. But if you oversexualize women then you disrespect them at a deeper level even if you respect them on another level. That is, if the first thing that comes out of your mouth on the subject of girlfriends is about ☺☺☺☺ing ☺☺☺☺☺es. (How many times have you heard on a tv show "Who's he sleeping with now?" instead of "are they going out?") And I don't care if the women have the same attitude -- they disrespect themselves.

We are sexual beings, but not hyper-sexual beings. If you think like that -- sex right out the gate with little other thought at the moment -- then there's this big tension between looking at the girl as, on the one hand, a good lay, and on the other hand, your goddess. You get intimately attached in a really clingy, emotional way. This is why teenage boys get more clingy than teenage girls, in my experience, especially in break-ups. Everything suffers, because by splitting up sex and emotion you're over-sexualized in one compartment and over-emotionalized in the other. (I think they call this Madonna/Whore.)

Well, I've probably gone on long enough. I'm not going to press the issue, so if you reply I'll be more than happy to keep talking with you but I'm not going to shove this down your throat. You do respect women. But you also disrespect women. I'm a big fan of everything you're doing, but don't fall into a pattern of using women, even if they tell you you're not using them.

Peace, William. In Christ, the King.