[bobthecockroach]

Not that anyone should be surpised:

YouTube - Enough Is Enough!

Ron Paul trying to stop insane TSA security practices.

[slap_j]

He remains near the top of my most respected politicians list.

[athanatos]

Originally Posted by slap_j

He remains near the top of my most suspicious politicians list.

Fixed.

[Role Modlin]

The truly annoying thing is that he makes too much sense to ever get elected. The powers-that-be will never allow it.

[bobthecockroach]

That and he's too old now.

Next best choice: Bruce Schneier.

Unfortunately, he's not a politician at all, so that's a bit of a long shot.

[Ridley's Own]

When he says 'private property should be protected by private individuals,' to what is he referring? The aircraft? The things being shipped on the aircraft? The people paying to fly on the aircraft? The interstate/international commerce being allowed to function because of the structural support provided by the airlines and Federal regulation thereof?

Words words words, without substance or meaning that simply restate an ideology absent any kind of recognition of the way the world actually works.

[bobthecockroach]

So how does the world actually work?

[redbaron]

I think he's right on here, some of these practices are getting crazy.

That said, I wish I hadn't heard his doublespeak on earmarks, or I'd respect him a lot more.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

When he says 'private property should be protected by private individuals,' to what is he referring? The aircraft? The things being shipped on the aircraft? The people paying to fly on the aircraft? The interstate/international commerce being allowed to function because of the structural support provided by the airlines and Federal regulation thereof?

Words words words, without substance or meaning that simply restate an ideology absent any kind of recognition of the way the world actually works.

Considering the fact that "interstate/international commerce" isn't private property, I dare say he's likely referring to the aircraft, and the private property contained therein. You know, stuff owned by people. I mean, to break it down, it's really quite simple. What is the goal of security? To protect stuff. What stuff? Well, since we're going flying, there are three, and only three things at play. Planes, people, and cargo. I'd say all of the above could be termed "private property."

No need to try to complicate things.

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

Considering the fact that "interstate/international commerce" isn't private property, I dare say he's likely referring to the aircraft, and the private property contained therein.

And that's the problem. The Congressman is viewing the issue as discrete units of individual things, rather than seeing the whole picture. Individuals, property, etc, don't exist as discrete units; they exist in relationship to other things, and the effects of change to the individual affects others and their property. Aircraft, air travel, passengers, their stuff, shipping things via air, etc., it's all part of the System that's making us richer across the globe, in monetary terms, cultural, etc. It's why we don't shoot nukes every time Iran does something we don't like. It's why we have the internet and internet commerce and iPods and more absorbant iPads and telephones and fair and free trade chocolate and, "You know, stuff owned by people."

You can't have the libertarian ideal and a international market. Or an interstate one. Or one outside of selling things out of your truck. Your choice. Your computer or your "individualism," narrowly defined as doing whatever I want whenever I damn well please.

Planes, people, and cargo. I'd say all of the above could be termed "private property."

People are private property?! Oh dear...

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

So how does the world actually work?

That the gov't isn't afraid of you. That it takes $600 a month per person to keep people from rioting the streets. That economic connectivity and political integration are fed by our consumerism. That "small government" and "The American Way of Life" are mutually exclusive goals. That reality is cognitive dissonance, and no one cares.

[bobthecockroach]

Honestly, I don't understand a word of what you just said. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean it as, "Not nearly enough info."

[slap_j]

Just about everything Ron Paul says is tinged with his version of libertarianism—and you can find lots of quarrels there—but the point here is that the government shouldn't make molesting us or taking naked photographs of us a prerequisite for air travel. You don't need Ron Paul's libertarian philosophy to arrive at that conclusion.

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by slap_j

You don't need Ron Paul's libertarian philosophy to arrive at that conclusion.

One would certainly hope not.

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

Honestly, I don't understand a word of what you just said. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean it as, "Not nearly enough info."

Very basically, I think that with globalization and the interconnection between nation-states and individuals, the type of libertarianism that Cong. Paul encourages is destructive and not well thought out with regards to the implications that it has for what we've accepted as the American way of life, for all its goodness and its badness. Further, I think his insistence on the primacy of "property rights" is frightening.

Slap_J's right. You don't have to go into a silly tantrum about property rights to say that TSA's going overboard. So insofar as he's right about TSA being OTT, he's also wrong (perhaps in a more dangerous way than TSA) about the solution.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

People are private property?! Oh dear...

My body belongs to me. Do you disagree?