[jthomas1600]

The Facts

This story has so many interesting things to talk about, but I guess at the core is where do you draw the line between proactively addressing the issue of bullying and not trampling on the rights of others to freely express their opinions.

Here's a few thoughts I had.

Either the teacher was looking for an opportunity like this to make a point or he has a poor handle on "class room control". The conversation seemed fairly civil and fairly brief and it seems there would have been a ton of options to redirect or end this line of conversation including just reminding the students this was an economic class and they needed to get to work.

I'm not sure exactly what the nature of the t-shirt was that the teacher was wearing. I'm all for anti bullying, but the line between anti bullying and gay rights gets really blurry and I don't think teachers should be part of any gay rights movements.

How much damage did the teacher do to the student kicked out of class? As much as I disagree with what he did, I'm not sure suspending him was the right thing to do. Teachers make mistakes. It also seems that the suspension will only serve to further politicize and sensationalize this incident.

I

[Ridley's Own]

It depends entirely on the tenor of the statement, I think, but just on the face of it, I think the ACLU is right in this matter.

I would say, though, there's a fine line between "I don't like gays" and "I don't believe people should have sex with someone of their same sex." One puts the emphasis on an individual's unchangeable attribute that they aren't responsible for (substitute an ethnicity or skin color and see what it sounds like), while the other makes a statement about a particular behavior. That's the teachable moment, not chucking a kid out of the classroom.

A more appropriate response from the teacher might have been "You're lucky to be wearing your own clothes; I think you ought to be wearing uniforms... Now on to geometry."

Teachers don't need to be wearing politically-charged shirts. The teacher is abusing his power if that's the direction he's taking it. Teach people the tools to arrive at conclusions, challenge, where need be, but don't use your authority to make political statements.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

The Facts

This story has so many interesting things to talk about, but I guess at the core is where do you draw the line between proactively addressing the issue of bullying and not trampling on the rights of others to freely express their opinions.

Here's a few thoughts I had.

Either the teacher was looking for an opportunity like this to make a point or he has a poor handle on "class room control". The conversation seemed fairly civil and fairly brief and it seems there would have been a ton of options to redirect or end this line of conversation including just reminding the students this was an economic class and they needed to get to work.

I'm not sure exactly what the nature of the t-shirt was that the teacher was wearing. I'm all for anti bullying, but the line between anti bullying and gay rights gets really blurry and I don't think teachers should be part of any gay rights movements.

How much damage did the teacher do to the student kicked out of class? As much as I disagree with what he did, I'm not sure suspending him was the right thing to do. Teachers make mistakes. It also seems that the suspension will only serve to further politicize and sensationalize this incident.

I

I think the teacher over reacted. As much as i may disagree with the boy who got kicked out, saying "I don't accept gays" is hardly bullying. While I certainly think that bullying is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated by teachers, not everybody will like you. Not everybody will be nice to you. I wasn't really bullied in HS but other kids did give me crap sometimes. It helped me build a thicker skin, not be so sensitive, and made me a stronger person.

I don't think teachers should be part of any gay rights movements.

why?

[jthomas1600]

Bryan, I don't think public school teacher's should be leading pro protestant movements, pro anti protestant movements, environmental movements (with the exception to science teachers covering the facts), etc. So I'm not just singling out gay rights. I just think for the most part teachers should stick to teaching the basics of education. I realize we teach history, world government, civics etc. But I think teachers should not be leading social charges.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

Bryan, I don't think public school teacher's should be leading pro protestant movements, pro anti protestant movements, environmental movements (with the exception to science teachers covering the facts), etc. So I'm not just singling out gay rights. I just think for the most part teachers should stick to teaching the basics of education. I realize we teach history, world government, civics etc. But I think teachers should not be leading social charges.

in the classroom, right. what they do outside the classroom is their own business?

[S.B.Nichols]

Originally Posted by Bryan

in the classroom, right. what they do outside the classroom is their own business?

I personally don't have a problem with what an individual does outside the classroom as long as they're capable of leaving it at the door and being a teacher in the classroom. They're there for history, math, and science, I'll handle my own child's worldview.

For me, I never noticed a crossover until college where every history and science teacher was a self proclaimed master of philosophy or theologian. I do know that one of my student's parents chose to send him to a private school after a particularly nasty year in with a science teacher and an unsympathetic principle.

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by Bryan

in the classroom, right. what they do outside the classroom is their own business?

Depending on the degree to which they are politically involved I guess the school could say they represent the school to a degree even when they're off duty, but I think that would be a stretch. I think most people (myself included) would agree that what they do on their own time, off school property is their own business.

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

Depending on the degree to which they are politically involved I guess the school could say they represent the school to a degree even when they're off duty, but I think that would be a stretch. I think most people (myself included) would agree that what they do on their own time, off school property is their own business.

You would be surprised and stultified by the level of busy-bodiness from the general public when it comes to teachers' private lives.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

It depends entirely on the tenor of the statement, I think, but just on the face of it, I think the ACLU is right in this matter.

I think they're right as well. As phrased, the comments were inhumane, but I don't see any evidence that they were intended to be bullying. The school does need to foster an atmosphere free of such behavior but this likely not the proper way to do so.

Teachers don't need to be wearing politically-charged shirts. The teacher is abusing his power if that's the direction he's taking it. Teach people the tools to arrive at conclusions, challenge, where need be, but don't use your authority to make political statements.

Right. The lectern is not a bully pulpit.

[tlj009]

Depending on the degree to which they are politically involved I guess the school could say they represent the school to a degree even when they're off duty, but I think that would be a stretch. I think most people (myself included) would agree that what they do on their own time, off school property is their own business.

They should be aware of how it could make their job more difficult. They still have to maintain discipline. Which is hard enough without providing the children with additional ammunition.

[tlj009]

I think they're right as well. As phrased, the comments were inhumane, but I don't see any evidence that they were intended to be bullying. The school does need to foster an atmosphere free of such behavior but this likely not the proper way to do so.

Inhumane. Really. Isn't that a little bit too strong of a word? He said, "I don't accept gays". While people may not like it, it seems a long way from inhumane.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by tlj009

Inhumane. Really. Isn't that a little bit too strong of a word? He said, "I don't accept gays". While people may not like it, it seems a long way from inhumane.

Too strong? Not at all. Gays are people. Not a creed or a club or a political group.

[S.B.Nichols]

So if he had said, 'I don't accept heterosexuals' would that be inhumane?

I understand your viewpoint... and what this child said certainly is crass, but inhumane? Throwing puppies off the freeway overpass is inhumane. This is just an example of someone speaking without thinking about their words.

[tlj009]

Too strong? Not at all. Gays are people. Not a creed or a club or a political group.

And? Isn't that simple statement as about as mild of a disagreement that can be vocalized? If we label it as "inhumane" doesn't that pretty much mean that we won't tolerate any dissenting voice at all? In my opinion, students should be suspended or expelled form inhumane treatment of another person. I just don't see this as being inhumane.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by S.B.Nichols

So if he had said, 'I don't accept heterosexuals' would that be inhumane?

Heterosexuals are also people.

I'm not judging intent here. But as phrased, it reads like "you're too broken for me to accept." That is inhumane by definition. Lacking compassion or consideration. It's also acutely self-interested which is anti-Christian.

Originally Posted by tlj009

And? Isn't that simple statement as about as mild of a disagreement that can be vocalized?

What is mild about rejecting a person for their own nature? That is utterly violent.

If we label it as "inhumane" doesn't that pretty much mean that we won't tolerate any dissenting voice at all?

What would be acceptable dissent in regards to not bullying homosexuals on the basis of their homosexuality?

I just don't see this as being inhumane.

inhumaneness - the quality of lacking compassion or consideration for others