[Kentl]

Originally Posted by roscoestring

God did not make sin. God defined sin and told us what sin was/is.

Each time I have sinned in my life, I knew that I was sinning as I was doing it. I could have stopped immediately but didn't. I had the choice to stop each time. Nothing God did made me sin. My parents set down a law for me to not steal. I did steal a toy from a shoe store when I was about 4 or 5 years old. I knew then that it was wrong and that if I was caught that I would have to suffer some sort of punishment. I was caught. I was punished for doing it. It's the same with God. He set down the laws (sin if you will) and we all go against those "laws" at one time or another. We always have a choice to not do it though. God does not make us sin nor does He prevent our choice to not do so.

so you dont belive this verse then?

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it


also it says god made sin

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.


if you don't think god made sin who did?

do you think humans have the ability to make something out of nothing?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Kentl

then what dose this say?

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead.



it says with otu law sin is dead

There are a bunch of problems here. First of all, you are not using Paul anything close to correctly here.

how do you exsplin the fact that he even says its not him but the sin inside of him

it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it

Oh man, Paul is explaining why those without Christ sin when they want to do right. This goes to a whole different level because you are using it as an excuse.

You claim to believe in Jesus Christ. But the next passage points to how Christ's death makes us no longer the servants of sin, which is a direct contradiction to the excuses you made.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

There are a bunch of problems here. First of all, you are not using Paul anything close to correctly here.



Oh man, Paul is explaining why those without Christ sin when they want to do right. This goes to a whole different level because you are using it as an excuse.

You claim to believe in Jesus Christ. But the next passage points to how Christ's death makes us no longer the servants of sin, which is a direct contradiction to the excuses you made.

read again

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.



we are free but we still have our sinful nature

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Kentl

also it says god made sin

No it doesn't it says Paul was made aware of what was sinful by the law, but it wasn't the law's fault. See the next passage you quote to disprove this nonsense.

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

if you don't think god made sin who did?

do you think humans have the ability to make something out of nothing?

1) Sin is not something made of nothing.
2) Scripture says:
Romans 5: 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

[Kentl]

1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.


the whole chapter


is about are sinful nature
and how we are slaves to it
in oru minds we are of god in are nature we are of sin

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Kentl

we are free but we still have our sinful nature

If this is true, you ave nobody to blame but you. Certainly not God, maybe Adam a little, but you for sure.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

No it doesn't it says Paul was made aware of what was sinful by the law, but it wasn't the law's fault. See the next passage you quote to disprove this nonsense.

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

ti dose not disprove it

all it says is the law is not sinful

the commandments are good but they bring with them bad
for with the commandments came sin
and i don't just mean the ten commandments either
any rule god set if you broke it was sin
so eating the fruit was sin

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

1) Sin is not something made of nothing.
2) Scripture says:
Romans 5: 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

but it was charged
the flood was because we seined
so god did charge us
besues cain
he was held for killing his brother

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

If this is true, you ave nobody to blame but you. Certainly not God, maybe Adam a little, but you for sure.

lets see here i have a desies
somebody holds the cure (god)
they do not give it to me
whos fault is it that i still have it?


#1 i did not choie to be bron in to sin
#2 sin will be around long after im gone
#3 adam amde sin for evrey one it is manily his fault
#4 but its gods fault for not taking it away yet when with a snap he could
#5 god made us imperfect
#6 the sin i choice to do is my fault but there is sin i do not choice to do to
#7 the sin i do not choice amkes it imosable to live with out sin
#8 If i had true free will i could stop the evil in me but i cant

[Giga Hertz]

#1 i did not choie to be bron in to sin
#2 sin will be around long after im gone
#3 adam amde sin for evrey one it is manily his fault
#4 but its gods fault for not taking it away yet when with a snap he could
#5 god made us imperfect
#6 the sin i choice to do is my fault but there is sin i do not choice to do to
#7 the sin i do not choice amkes it imosable to live with out sin
#8 If i had true free will i could stop the evil in me but i cant

#1 You didn't choose to be born in American society the way it is now. Is it the fault of Abraham Lincoln that the American society is the way it is?

#2 Until Christ returns in his glory.

#3 Let's say that, from a theological standpoint, the first half of Genesis may be a parable. Who's fault is it then?

#4 As pointed out earlier, without sin, we wouldn't have the ability to choose right or wrong. We'd literally be slaves.

#5 If we were perfect, in theory, we'd be God.

#6 As far as I'm concerned, you're responsible for everything. There are things that I always think "Shouldn't have done that" and I know it's my fault. I'm accountable if I gossip, I'm accountable if I say something childish against another person. Just as you are.

#7 So can you give a few examples of that sin you don't choose?

#8 You'd be surprised what a lot of prayer can do.[/quote]

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by Giga Hertz

#1 You didn't choose to be born in American society the way it is now. Is it the fault of Abraham Lincoln that the American society is the way it is?

tell me who's fault is it?

how in any way is it my fault?

Originally Posted by Giga Hertz

#2 Until Christ returns in his glory.

#3 Let's say that, from a theological standpoint, the first half of Genesis may be a parable. Who's fault is it then?

agree
#3 lets say you show me how it is

whats to stop me form saying Christ is a parable?
you cant just pick and choice whats a parable

Originally Posted by Giga Hertz

#4 As pointed out earlier, without sin, we wouldn't have the ability to choose right or wrong. We'd literally be slaves.

read the verse it says we still are slaves

Originally Posted by Giga Hertz

#5 If we were perfect, in theory, we'd be God.

which is what god wants form us

Originally Posted by Giga Hertz

#6 As far as I'm concerned, you're responsible for everything. There are things that I always think "Shouldn't have done that" and I know it's my fault. I'm accountable if I gossip, I'm accountable if I say something childish against another person. Just as you are.

#7 So can you give a few examples of that sin you don't choose?

#6 i dont agree
#7 my first lustful thgout of a girl did not know what or why it thgout this
just came by isntince
you the way ti dose for evrey one

also the first time i lied
i was like three (its when i first could talk) i did not even know what a lie was did not understand

or when im asleep i cant control my dreams

how about when I'm drudged up because of medications and i say things i don't mean

how about when im bipolar and a chimerical imbalance i can control makes me do thinks

want more i can fidn more

Originally Posted by Giga Hertz

#8 You'd be surprised what a lot of prayer can do.

so hows that coming for you or any one eles?
you free of sin 100% yet?
you never will be no mater how much you pray in till chrit comes as you said earlyer

and i prayed a LOT about it
form the time i was 8 till now
and i had enough

[tlj009]

lets see here i have a desies
somebody holds the cure (god)
they do not give it to me
whos fault is it that i still have it?

Your own. God offers the cure. All you have to do is accept it. God is the cure.

#1 i did not choie to be bron in to sin
#2 sin will be around long after im gone
#3 adam amde sin for evrey one it is manily his fault
#4 but its gods fault for not taking it away yet when with a snap he could
#5 god made us imperfect
#6 the sin i choice to do is my fault but there is sin i do not choice to do to
#7 the sin i do not choice amkes it imosable to live with out sin
#8 If i had true free will i could stop the evil in me but i cant

#1 So?
#2 So?
#3 We are all guilty of our own sins. We are not guilty of Adam's sins. And he does not make us sin.
#4 God does take away our sins. The Bible tells us that the reason God has not returned is because he is not willing that any should perish. That tends to imply that if God did snap his fingers and get rid of sin, then there would be those who perish. Kinda like wiping the slate clean and starting afresh. But then God wouldn't be redeeming his creation, he would destroy it and create anew.
#5 God made us perfect. Perfect being without sin. Your gripe is that it is possible to sin in the first place.
#6 You are not held accountable for a sin that you don't chose to do. Without the law, sin is not imputed.
#7 Which means what?
#8 You can keep yourself from sinning. It sounds like you are throwing a pity party because it is just too hard.

[tenwatt]

Shawn, let’s say my wife and I are at the beach and my wife says “You know, it’s going to terribly offend me if you’re checking out other women in their bikinis.” Ten minutes later my eyes are following some cute girl along the water’s edge. My wife notices and lets me know that I’ve wounded her.

There are only three people involved here; my wife, bikini girl, and me.

Who is at fault for hurting my wife’s feelings?
a.) My wife, for having such high expectations of me.
b.) Bikini girl, for dressing so seductively.
c.) Me, for blatantly doing what I was asked not to do.

Let’s say I come home from a hard day’s work and my wife says “Could you please take the garbage out to the curb?” I ignore her and go play guitar.

There are only four factors involved here; my wife, my guitar, the garbage, and me.

Who is at fault for my wife being disappointed in the fact that I didn’t take out the garbage?
a.) Me, for blatantly NOT doing what I was asked and ignoring my wife’s needs.
b.) My wife, for having such high expectations of me and asking me to do something as soon as I walked in the door.
c.) The garbage, for it’s untimely need to be taken out.
d.) The guitar for being so enjoyable.

I already know that you’re likely to interject your own unlisted option of “It’s God’s fault for making you the way you are.”

I see God’s commandments NOT as a punishment where He’s taken away all the fun stuff He calls sinning, but as a warning like a parent telling their child “Don’t touch that, it’s hot.” Even from a non-spiritual stand point, each “sin” has NATURAL, EARTHLY consequences. If you sleep with multiple partners, there are emotional and sometimes physical repercussions. If you lie a lot people will stop believing you. If you steal people will hate you. If you hate you’ll be consumed and depressed from the hate in your heart. God didn’t just set these commands for the fun of it. Every “sin” involves hurting ourselves or our fellow man.

It’s NOT just because we don’t follow his commands we would be sent to Hell. I feel like God is a very loving God for commanding us to NOT do the things we should NOT do. His judgment comes in our reaction to messing up. Do we run to God, repenting for what we’ve done, or do we reject God and the forgiveness He offers?