[Cygnus-X1]

Well, I'd like to know my fretboard theory...but I can play a pretty hot lead just by winging it. So how do you guys and gals tackle the drudgery over learning scales versus the fun of just playing? Yes, I do have the occasional sour note...which I'm sure knowing my scales would help to eliminate...just seems like too much of a thought process...at least at first...maybe if learn 'em, it would come natural? Or am I just rambling here...lol

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by Cygnus-X1

Well, I'd like to know my fretboard theory...but I can play a pretty hot lead just by winging it. So how do you guys and gals tackle the drudgery over learning scales versus the fun of just playing? Yes, I do have the occasional sour note...which I'm sure knowing my scales would help to eliminate...just seems like too much of a thought process...at least at first...maybe if learn 'em, it would come natural? Or am I just rambling here...lol

its a bit of both, when you learn the scales your fingers go to notes by "memory",
and if you play cretin scales (pentatonic) you have a lot lesser chance of hinting a bad note,
most guitarists use both at the same time, the improvise on a scale.

learning scales will help and it will come natural

learning how to make something out of nothing will help


You dont really think "I'm going to play a B note most of the time if you improvise
but your fingers and ears get use to the B
so they will hit that note with out you thinking about it

[Cygnus-X1]

Thanks...I was played lead for a guy who really knew his scales...he says I was playing in Em pentatonic...which leads me to say that I'm stuck in the Land of Pentatonia! I call it "box" or "trash" lead...it sounds good, but not for long as I try to play over other styles. I get stuck in this "box" of fingering and it gets pretty one dimentional and not very creative...this is where I just need to buckle down and learn those darn modes and scales...or just play slow blues the rest of my life.

[Rainer.]

Best thing to do is learn from what other guitarists have already done.

Learning words out of the dictionary alone won't get you to write poetry, but reading and imitating great poets might get you there.

[Cygnus-X1]

Maybe its just my touch-o-ADD talkin, but trying to learn modes and scales is like trying to...learn modes and scales lol ...I know that if I DID learn learn them, I could go to any position on the neck according to what's rhythm is being played, then BAM! ...I've always just played by ear, but I need to just stop the whining and start the studying because I really want to be a better guitarist...so I can play both a joyful and SKILLFUL noise unto the Lord. lol

[metropolis4]

The other option is to learn every note on the fretboard and learn your theory and then you won't need "scales". At least not in the sense of memorizing a pattern on the fretboard.

In other words; you could learn patterns on the neck and what they mean. Or you could learn the theory behind those patterns and know your instrument, and then there's no reason to learn the patterns.

[tenwatt]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

The other option is to learn every note on the fretboard and learn your theory and then you won't need "scales". At least not in the sense of memorizing a pattern on the fretboard.

In other words; you could learn patterns on the neck and what they mean. Or you could learn the theory behind those patterns and know your instrument, and then there's no reason to learn the patterns.

What's a good references for something that does a great job teaching this?

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by Cygnus-X1

...just seems like too much of a thought process...at least at first...maybe if learn 'em, it would come natural?

Yes, if you possess the knowledge then it's that much more information stored away for you to draw from and improvise with.

For me, learning scales is beneficial in more ways than helping someone improv and solo. Learning scales gets you familiar with various patterns and the different intervals that make up those patterns. They also get your right and left hands and fingers in sync whether you're doing pick-every-note alternate picking or legato or economy picking or whatever. They can help make use of the often forgotten pinky finger. They can help teach how the notes in the chords relate to the notes in the scales and can also help with better understanding melody and harmony.

Learning and practicing scales, to me, is a critical part of learning music on any instrument I can think of.

[jefcon1]

Knowing and understanding scales is extremely beneficial to harmony and chord theory, not just melody and leads. IMO modes confuse the issue for most guitar players. It is very possible, and highly likely, to be able to play in any mode, in any key, faster than Yngwie and still not know how or when to use them over a given chord progression. Learn the major and minor scales. Learn how they relate to the chords in that key. Build and expand. Modes are great and very useful, but they are mostly just semantics until you get into jazz improv.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by tenwatt

What's a good references for something that does a great job teaching this?

I wish I could tell you... but I've taught myself so it's hard for me to give a reference. I'd have to think a bit about how I've gone about doing it. Not that I'm there, but it's the ideal I've been working towards. I'll have to think about it a bit and get back to you...

I figure there's two ways to learn scales on the guitar. One is learning the patterns on the fretboard, the other is learning the notes on the fretboard.

In other words, you could learn a C scale is this:

-----------------------
-------------------0-1
-------------0-2------
----0-2-3-----------
-3--------------------
----------------------

Or you could learn a C scale is this:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

And learn every note on the fretboard so you know where those notes are.

I've been aiming for the second approach

[Bushman]

Originally Posted by tenwatt

What's a good references for something that does a great job teaching this?

Originally Posted by metropolis4

The other option is to learn every note on the fretboard and learn your theory and then you won't need "scales". At least not in the sense of memorizing a pattern on the fretboard.

In other words; you could learn patterns on the neck and what they mean. Or you could learn the theory behind those patterns and know your instrument, and then there's no reason to learn the patterns.

I ran across a Youtube that explains modes in a nutshell, and with one scale, (three notes per string, major scale) You can play them all and see the interval.
It was a "lightbulb comes on" moment that was a huge part of my theory.
I couldn't believe modes and application could be this simple.
Check it out: Part 1 , Part 2

Terry...

[Bushman]

In addition I memorized the modes in order by this acronym (is that the right word?)
I - Don't - Play - Loud - Music - After - Lunch
I - D - P - L - M - A - L
Ionian - Dorian - Phrygian - Lydian - Mixolydian - Aeolian - Locrian
I know there are 2 L's, but I know that Locrian mode is so wierd, it's almost never used. So it comes last.

Terry...

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Bushman

In addition I memorized the modes in order by this acronym (is that the right word?)
I - Don't - Play - Loud - Music - After - Lunch
I - D - P - L - M - A - L
Ionian - Dorian - Phrygian - Lydian - Mixolydian - Aeolian - Locrian
I know there are 2 L's, but I know that Locrian mode is so wierd, it's almost never used. So it comes last.

Terry...

Locrian isn't weird. It's just the misunderstood little brother of the aeolian mode.
Its useful in its own right.

[Bushman]

Ok, so it's a creepy sibling of a minor scale.
It still goes last. :P