[ethan_hanus]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

Well... Sort of. When you actually get down to it you'll discover that almost all tubes out there are made at a couple factories and then have different labels put on them. For example many Groove Tubes are simply relabeled Sovtek's. Plus, many brands offer many different variations of a tube. Since the construction of the tube is what will make the biggest difference, you'll see a lot more variation in tone between different designs of the same tube than between different brands of the same tube.

Overall tubes are a subtle thing. Usually the biggest difference you'll notice out of them is going from old ones that are shot to new ones that are functioning correctly. Otherwise the difference you'll hear will be very subtle...

True. I don't mean the difference between a 6L6 and a KT-88, that's a rather large difference, I mean with tubes that have the same pin set up the brand matters just as much as the type. JJ's are darker and smoother, TAD or Tong-sol are typically brighter and breakup sooner. Sovtek tubes for me are only useful in the phase inverter position, their LPS or long plate preamp tubes work great in there since they have a longer life span. And there are actually two types of Mullard brands, since the original Mullard brand didn't trademark their brand name, a Russian tube maker took their name and started selling cheap re branded tubes under their name for their price. So when you buy Mullard tubes, you might be getting the cheap rebranded Russian tubes. I prolly ended up doing that.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

Overall tubes are a subtle thing. Usually the biggest difference you'll notice out of them is going from old ones that are shot to new ones that are functioning correctly. Otherwise the difference you'll hear will be very subtle...

If it isn't just a placebo effect. I have had some tubes I have replaced and I thought I could hear a difference, and it was so much better, and then I realized I had put the same tube back in. Sometimes it is VERY, VERY, subtle.

A lot of tubes will sound pretty dang close to identical, especially on clean tones. Usually though, if there is anything choking out your sound downstream, you will be lucky to hear any difference from tubes. Granted, some tubes just flat suck. I ran across some unnamed German tubes, (stamped made in West Germany) and they could suck the life out of anything. There was a very audible difference and they sucked.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by ethan_hanus

True. I don't mean the difference between a 6L6 and a KT-88, that's a rather large difference, I mean with tubes that have the same pin set up the brand matters just as much as the type. JJ's are darker and smoother, TAD or Tong-sol are typically brighter and breakup sooner. Sovtek tubes for me are only useful in the phase inverter position, their LPS or long plate preamp tubes work great in there since they have a longer life span. And there are actually two types of Mullard brands, since the original Mullard brand didn't trademark their brand name, a Russian tube maker took their name and started selling cheap re branded tubes under their name for their price. So when you buy Mullard tubes, you might be getting the cheap rebranded Russian tubes. I prolly ended up doing that.

Yeah, New Sensor has bought the rights to a lot of the old names and now makes tubes with their labels that are nothing like the originals. They currently make Mullard, Tung-Sol and Gold Lion tubes all in their same factory. AFAIK it's not that Mullard didn't trademark their name, it's that New Sensor has bought the rights and now sells cheap knock off tubes with their label to fool unsuspecting guitarists.

I didn't mean the difference between a 6L6 and a KT-88 either, I meant the difference between a 6L6 and a 6L6. There are a lot of different designs of the same tube out there. Look at their web site and you'll see Groove Tubes offers 9 different 12ax7's and 14 different 6L6's! They have different plate and grid designs and other such differences.

Still, you'll discover as you delve into the world of tubes more that most tubes are made in the same factories and then have different labels slapped on them. I don't recall the specific models, but I know that some Groove Tubes are simply Sovtek tubes with a different label, and so on...

As for how much brand name matters, and how much is snakeoil and/or hype do a search of guitarists opinions about Ei Vs. JJ el84's for a laugh. You'll notice one group states that the JJ's sounded fuller, smoother and less harsh in the high end than the Ei's, while another group of people states that the Ei's sound fuller smoother and less harsh in the high end than the JJ's