[acrossthesirion]

Originally Posted by 4186326

Its not a matter of how you or I FEEL...its more a matter of Holiness Unto The Lord...
Music is different because remember what Lucifers talent was in Heaven...thats right, Music. Now where is Lucifer, he is kicked out of heaven...Hes prowling on the earth as Satan. This same talent is being used to destroy people...and that my friends is why worldly music can be very evil, and one genre that has never failed to cause a frenzy is the rock genre...what are the lead guitarists reffered to as? guitar gods...idolatry anyone?
Yes, so I am not AGAINST worldly evil music. No, the world is the world, they are lost in sin. I dont expect them to have answers. But I will not listen to their music and lie to myself that its clean. And I will not stand by and lest people smear Gods name by saying that evil is good.

Yeah, so can any of you tell me why some Christian rock bands make their voice growly, like Day of Fire, why? Because they wanna sound like the world. You cant even tell the difference anymore(listen to the first song on Day of Fires latest album). If we are the light then we would not sound like darkness.
There was the Pastor who was commenting on Kirk Franklins response on the song "Stomp" being played in clubs. What did Kirk respond? You guessed it folks the easiest answer to give in the book...."we reaching them".
The pastor said "so what do they have a alter call in club when the song plays".

So I challenge each one of you. Look into these worldly rock bands....can you with all honesty and truth in your heart tell me that bands like: black sabbath acdc mettalica ,the doors, jimi hendrix, slipknot etc etc are for the glory of God and are not the devils tool. Cause if they are do you think apostle Paul would be rocking to their songs or Peter or even our Lord Jesus....
We should not try to flower up the message of the Gospel. Preach the Word...dont try to find ways to look cool....cause God is already cooler than you think...all we have to do is Preach.
You see Christian "artists" have forgotten that they are to bring praise to God...theyre caught up in the music industry trying to create art like the secular artists and then slap Christ onto it.
Remember judgement will start in the house of God...and just because Joel Houston has a tattoo, or Matt Red listens to sec artists or whatever, it doesnt make it right...theyre human they mess up too...but dont justify it.

Unfortunately the Blood of Jesus covers our sins, not our excuses

Please dont get all emotional. Read and respond with sense

What's with this Holiness vs World dichotomy you've got going? I don't understand how you're defining things of "the world." Is it just things non-Christians do? Because that would be an awful lot of things...

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by 4186326

Music is different because remember what Lucifers talent was in Heaven...thats right, Music.

That's not really a reason why music is different than other art forms.

I mean a "secular" painting is a secular work of art, just like a "secular" song is a secular work of art.

What is your opinion on viewing the paintings of Andy Warhol? And is it different than your opinion on listening to the music of Keith Urban? If so, why?

You see Christian "artists" have forgotten that they are to bring praise to God...theyre caught up in the music industry trying to create art like the secular artists and then slap Christ onto it.
Remember judgement will start in the house of God...and just because Joel Houston has a tattoo, or Matt Red listens to sec artists or whatever, it doesnt make it right...theyre human they mess up too...but dont justify it.

You're passing your own harsh judgement on an awfully large amount of people for trying to simply do something good for the Kingdom of God...


Also, I would ask the same question that acrossthesirion asked above me: How are you defining "things of the world"?

Also, is listening to something like Indian classical music also sinful? Because it certainly is not dedicated to God. Though I have gone to a few concerts of music from India, and found it to be quite beautiful. How about the folk music of my home country of Vietnam? Vietnam is a country deeply woven with beliefs in ancestor worship and superstition. Is that off limits as well?

[mikegug]

Originally Posted by 4186326

There was the Pastor who was commenting on Kirk Franklins response on the song "Stomp" being played in clubs. What did Kirk respond? You guessed it folks the easiest answer to give in the book...."we reaching them".
The pastor said "so what do they have a alter call in club when the song plays".

Computers are often used for porn. Do you use a computer for e-mail without an alter call at the end of every e-mail?

That logic doesn't work for me.

If that above pastor has the opportunity, I'm certain he holds doors open for strangers in public, yes? Does he subsequently ask the person to turn their life to Christ? Every public interaction does not need to result in an alter call.

God created music. He smiles when we enjoy ourselves with his other creations such as music.

For instance, if you built a guitar and your son or daughter cherished it and played it and even wrote songs with it, would you not LOVE that?

I think God loves it when we play music in our bedroom even by ourselves. I have no Biblical reference for that but I'd be really surprised if anyone could refute that.

[SccHarpGirl]

In the early days, it was considered "sinful" for instruments - any instruments - to be used for church music. For pretty much exactly the same reasons you mention.

[SccHarpGirl]

Also, I feel like Christian music in general could do with *more* influence from certain "secular" artists, not less. I almost never listen to Christian music because it's just, well, bad musically speaking. Lyrics are insipid, it's musically uninteresting, and it sounds like a knockoff of pop artists 10 years ago.

Now, obviously, this isn't every Christian artist out there - there are some that do amazing work that's musically and lyrically awesome. I just feel that in terms of quality of music, the Christian scene could take a hard look at the secular music scene and try to learn some lessons about writing quality music.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by 4186326

Its not a matter of how you or I FEEL...its more a matter of Holiness Unto The Lord...

Evrey one on here who is a christin gives god his holiness.

Originally Posted by 4186326

Music is different because remember what Lucifers talent was in Heaven...thats right, Music. Now where is Lucifer, he is kicked out of heaven...Hes prowling on the earth as Satan. This same talent is being used to destroy people

whoa whoa whao.

satin was kicked out for tricking us humans to fall in to sin
had nothing to do with music
and just so you know "rock msuic" did not exist back then more liekly then not satin played a defreint insutment then a guitar

Originally Posted by 4186326

...and that my friends is why worldly music can be very evil, and one genre that has never failed to cause a frenzy is the rock genre

blues has goten pepepol to conmit sucide
Rap gets pepioep shot up
christin music ets pepeol to see how bad they are and kill them selfs
corunty talks about losing girl freinds
classic msuic can even get pepeol figting (more pepoel have died for singign a naTINAOL anthem then any rock song evwer)

any music of any kind can cause these things

but the msuic it self is not the soruce it is the humans who lsitin to it

Originally Posted by 4186326

...what are the lead guitarists reffered to as? guitar gods...idolatry anyone?

is this right? probely not
but we are not saying they are gods
we are saying they are the best at what they do

and blues gutirst have been called that

mozart has been referd to as the god of classicl music

Originally Posted by 4186326

Yes, so I am not AGAINST worldly evil music. No, the world is the world, they are lost in sin. I dont expect them to have answers. But I will not listen to their music and lie to myself that its clean. And I will not stand by and lest people smear Gods name by saying that evil is good.

how ever your passing judgemtn on non christinas
which god says is a no no

so your point is?

Originally Posted by 4186326

Yeah, so can any of you tell me why some Christian rock bands make their voice growly, like Day of Fire, why? Because they wanna sound like the world. You cant even tell the difference anymore(listen to the first song on Day of Fires latest album). If we are the light then we would not sound like darkness.

the ultmamte kindness was a butchring of him

seems liuke a very drak thing made light

the bible says god turns dark to light

Originally Posted by 4186326

There was the Pastor who was commenting on Kirk Franklins response on the song "Stomp" being played in clubs. What did Kirk respond? You guessed it folks the easiest answer to give in the book...."we reaching them".

which is what the bible says to do

to reach them by love
by sharing
by caring
so he is in the wrong how?

Originally Posted by 4186326

The pastor said "so what do they have a alter call in club when the song plays".

jesues was near prostotes all the time

are you saying jesuse is wrong?
he preached in some places that where eactly "chrisnn places"

Originally Posted by 4186326

So I challenge each one of you. Look into these worldly rock bands....can you with all honesty and truth in your heart tell me that bands like: black sabbath acdc mettalica ,the doors, jimi hendrix, slipknot etc etc are for the glory of God and are not the devils tool

glory of god? probely not
satins tool?
well seeing as how most of them are "Acting" the part
and not really satin worshuipers
id say no
i bet you anything most of them have relijons or they are athist
so this is simply not satins tool

Originally Posted by 4186326

. Cause if they are do you think apostle Paul would be rocking to their songs or Peter or even our Lord Jesus....

can you show me proof they would not?
be kind of hard you know.... with them being dead and all

Originally Posted by 4186326

We should not try to flower up the message of the Gospel. Preach the Word...dont try to find ways to look cool....cause God is already cooler than you think...all we have to do is Preach.
You see Christian "artists" have forgotten that they are to bring praise to God..

i dont know about you but i head the most powrful meaageas form those band thats are screaming about gods priase

just so much more emotion then a simple "thanks god for saving me and like stuff"

Originally Posted by 4186326

.theyre caught up in the music industry trying to create art like the secular artists and then slap Christ onto it.

so you dont want christins to reach those who have fallen form grace?
cause thats like the number 1 thign chruist wants us to do

Originally Posted by 4186326

Remember judgement will start in the house of God...and just because Joel Houston has a tattoo, or Matt Red listens to sec artists or whatever, it doesnt make it right...theyre human they mess up too...but dont justify it.

yeah so dont judge any one eles
thats gods job


plenty of pepioel in the bible have tattos
there is nothing wrong wiith them

there are some pyasms in the bible that are not about god they are "secual"

Originally Posted by 4186326

Unfortunately the Blood of Jesus covers our sins, not our excuses

Please dont get all emotional. Read and respond with sense

i have now please do the same

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by 4186326

Music is different because remember what Lucifers talent was in Heaven...thats right, Music.

Back it up with Scripture. I've heard this claim repeatedly and never seen evidence for it. It's also a tiny bit suspicious that I've only ever heard it from people who were using it to argue that secular music is sinful. Much like I've only ever heard the "wine was really just grape juice" argument from people who were trying to condemn alcohol. In both cases, seems like a convenient invention.

Originally Posted by 4186326

and that my friends is why worldly music can be very evil, and one genre that has never failed to cause a frenzy is the rock genre...what are the lead guitarists reffered to as? guitar gods...idolatry anyone?

True. A lot of people idolize rock guitarists. What about famous athletes? Just as many (if not more) people idolize them. Are sports sinful now too?

The fact that something can be misused is not an argument against it. Like mikegug pointed out, computers can be used for porn. You used a computer to post here. By your own logic, you're sinning by using a worldly invention that can be used for evil. But that's not true in either case. Computers themselves aren't sinful just because certain people corrupt them, and rock music itself isn't sinful just because certain people idolize it.

Originally Posted by 4186326

Yeah, so can any of you tell me why some Christian rock bands make their voice growly, like Day of Fire, why? Because they wanna sound like the world. You cant even tell the difference anymore(listen to the first song on Day of Fires latest album). If we are the light then we would not sound like darkness.

You know, this reminds me of something.

Have you ever heard of Blind Willie Johnson? He's a blues singer from the 1930's, decades before rock music evolved. Here's a song of his called "John the Revelator," recorded in 1930:

YouTube - Blind Willie Johnson - John the Revelator

Doesn't his voice sound growly? That was the way a lot of blues singers performed back then.

Now take a look at the lyrics:

[call] Well who's that writin'? [response] John the Revelator
Who's that writin'? John the Revelator
Who's that writin'? John the Revelator
A book of the seven seals

[call] Tell me what's John writin'? [response] Ask the Revelator
What's John writin'? Ask the Revelator
What's John writin'? Ask the Revelator
A book of the seven seals

Well ooh ooh why me, thousands cried holy
Bound for some, Son of our God
Daughter of Zion, Judah the Lion
He redeemeth, and bought us with his blood

John the Revelator, great advocator
Get's 'em on the battle of Zion
Lord, tellin' the story, risin' in glory
Cried, "Lord, don't you love some I"

Well Moses to Moses, watchin' the flock
Saw the bush where they had to stop
God told Moses, "Pull off your shoes"
Out of the flock, well you I choose

So, here you have a growly-voiced singer performing an overtly Biblical song, decades before heavy metal had even been thought of. Was he trying to sound like the world?

Or could it be that Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Slipknot, and Metallica were actually all influenced by people like Blind Willie Johnson?

It's like I've been saying. Any musical style is a collage of influences, and none of them can be traced directly to God or the devil.

Originally Posted by 4186326

We should not try to flower up the message of the Gospel. Preach the Word...dont try to find ways to look cool....cause God is already cooler than you think...all we have to do is Preach.

So why is it that a Christian who plays rock music is trying to "look cool," but a Christian who performs hymns in four-part harmony is just preaching? Like I said, I minored in music in college. I know plenty of people who listened to and performed Bach chorales primarily because, in the right crowd, that made them look cool. I also know plenty of people who enjoy listening to rock music...simply because they enjoy it. What a concept.

[burningtr33]

Originally Posted by 4186326

Its not a matter of how you or I FEEL...its more a matter of Holiness Unto The Lord...
Music is different because remember what Lucifers talent was in Heaven...thats right, Music. Now where is Lucifer, he is kicked out of heaven...Hes prowling on the earth as Satan. This same talent is being used to destroy people...and that my friends is why worldly music can be very evil,

Can you back up all your claims with scripture?

Originally Posted by 4186326

and one genre that has never failed to cause a frenzy is the rock genre...what are the lead guitarists reffered to as? guitar gods...idolatry anyone?

I think you are reading too much into the titles. You give the words the power that they dont have.

Originally Posted by 4186326

Yes, so I am not AGAINST worldly evil music. No, the world is the world, they are lost in sin. I dont expect them to have answers. But I will not listen to their music and lie to myself that its clean.

So with that logic you are going to not eat at a restaurant where the chef is not christian, you are never going to watch any movies because majority of directors are non christian, you are not going to buy clothes from non christian brands, you are not going to buy a car if a non christian company made it?

Originally Posted by 4186326

And I will not stand by and lest people smear Gods name by saying that evil is good.

We are never saying that evil is good. You are labeling something that is neutral, like MUSIC, and calling it evil because it has a certain chord progression

Originally Posted by 4186326

Yeah, so can any of you tell me why some Christian rock bands make their voice growly, like Day of Fire, why? Because they wanna sound like the world. You cant even tell the difference anymore(listen to the first song on Day of Fires latest album). If we are the light then we would not sound like darkness.

Is there a voice that is deemed "holy"? Is there certain musical style that is deemed "righteous and right"? So what if they want to sound like the world? Its not as if they are partaking of their sinful ways? So if a christian guitar luthier wanted to make a guitar that is similar to a non christian guitar maker, i guess the christian luthier sold out to the world according to your logic.

Originally Posted by 4186326

There was the Pastor who was commenting on Kirk Franklins response on the song "Stomp" being played in clubs. What did Kirk respond? You guessed it folks the easiest answer to give in the book...."we reaching them".
The pastor said "so what do they have a alter call in club when the song plays".

Does the pastor think he saves souls with alter calls? He cant. Only God convicting the souls through the holy spirit saves souls. What if someone at the club indeed get saved because of the "worldly" influenced music. Is that person not truly saved because he/she was not saved through hymns or something?

Originally Posted by 4186326

So I challenge each one of you. Look into these worldly rock bands....can you with all honesty and truth in your heart tell me that bands like: black sabbath acdc mettalica ,the doors, jimi hendrix, slipknot etc etc are for the glory of God and are not the devils tool. Cause if they are do you think apostle Paul would be rocking to their songs or Peter or even our Lord Jesus....

I dont think any of us said that the artists mentioned above glorified God cuz they didnt. BUT you cannot discredit their contributions to the musical society because those bands shaped modern rock and transformed the way music is played. Are you going to discredit Frank Lloyd Wright and his contributions to architecture because he is not Christian? Just because their message was bad does not mean that their musical skills are necessarily evil.

Originally Posted by 4186326

We should not try to flower up the message of the Gospel. Preach the Word...dont try to find ways to look cool....cause God is already cooler than you think

Like I said before, I know many Christian metal bands that do not flower up the message of the Gospel. Even Bono from U2 understands the gospel and expresses it. Not that I agree with everything that Bono believes in, but he is doing lot of good works.

Originally Posted by 4186326

You see Christian "artists" have forgotten that they are to bring praise to God...theyre caught up in the music industry trying to create art like the secular artists and then slap Christ onto it.
Remember judgement will start in the house of God...and just because Joel Houston has a tattoo, or Matt Red listens to sec artists or whatever, it doesnt make it right...theyre human they mess up too...but dont justify it.

Yes I agree that many artists who were Christians abandoned their faith. HOWEVER there are still many out there that are true to the Gospel. I dont think you can put everyone under one umbrella just because of your ignorance.

Originally Posted by 4186326

Unfortunately the Blood of Jesus covers our sins, not our excuses

Please dont get all emotional. Read and respond with sense

Don't get all emotional? We are not being emotional, but when I see people's ignorance, it really gets me ticked off. I read your post at least 3 times and tried to understand where you are coming from.

Before you condemn the "Christian rockstars" you should see what you are doing to reach out to the metal heads? The chances are those kids are not going to listen to you and I know this from experience. When i go out on gigs the reason how i can talk to them about religion and eventually the gospel is because they can relate to me. Can you do the same with your "Church" music? Can you do the same with your "holy and not evil" music? Chances are you probably cant.

I get emotional because this affects me personally. My brother started smoking weed and doing drugs with his friends. They all loved metal bands like Avenged Sevenfold and Disturbed and what not. What broke my heart was that the majority of the kids that listen to those music will not come to church because they see it as a place of condemnation and hate. That's why i started my band to reach out to those kids using the music that you deem "evil". Am i sinning in the process? IF you think I am, than I really think you should re-evaluate how Jesus reached to the multitudes.

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by 4186326

Its not a matter of how you or I FEEL...its more a matter of Holiness Unto The Lord...
Music is different because remember what Lucifers talent was in Heaven...thats right, Music. Now where is Lucifer, he is kicked out of heaven...Hes prowling on the earth as Satan. This same talent is being used to destroy people...and that my friends is why worldly music can be very evil, and one genre that has never failed to cause a frenzy is the rock genre...what are the lead guitarists reffered to as? guitar gods...idolatry anyone?
Yes, so I am not AGAINST worldly evil music. No, the world is the world, they are lost in sin. I dont expect them to have answers. But I will not listen to their music and lie to myself that its clean. And I will not stand by and lest people smear Gods name by saying that evil is good.

Yeah, so can any of you tell me why some Christian rock bands make their voice growly, like Day of Fire, why? Because they wanna sound like the world. You cant even tell the difference anymore(listen to the first song on Day of Fires latest album). If we are the light then we would not sound like darkness.
There was the Pastor who was commenting on Kirk Franklins response on the song "Stomp" being played in clubs. What did Kirk respond? You guessed it folks the easiest answer to give in the book...."we reaching them".
The pastor said "so what do they have a alter call in club when the song plays".

So I challenge each one of you. Look into these worldly rock bands....can you with all honesty and truth in your heart tell me that bands like: black sabbath acdc mettalica ,the doors, jimi hendrix, slipknot etc etc are for the glory of God and are not the devils tool. Cause if they are do you think apostle Paul would be rocking to their songs or Peter or even our Lord Jesus....
We should not try to flower up the message of the Gospel. Preach the Word...dont try to find ways to look cool....cause God is already cooler than you think...all we have to do is Preach.
You see Christian "artists" have forgotten that they are to bring praise to God...theyre caught up in the music industry trying to create art like the secular artists and then slap Christ onto it.
Remember judgement will start in the house of God...and just because Joel Houston has a tattoo, or Matt Red listens to sec artists or whatever, it doesnt make it right...theyre human they mess up too...but dont justify it.

Unfortunately the Blood of Jesus covers our sins, not our excuses

Please dont get all emotional. Read and respond with sense

1. Nowhere does the Bible say Satan was in charge of music. Which means you still need to prove how music is different from architecture, graphic design, or any one of the numerous other arts I could name in which you do not shun secular artists.

2. If you want to talk about secular music in general, you should pick a fair sampling of bands. Why don't you show me how U2 and Brad Paisley are evil?

3. Your unbelievably broad generalizations are not helping. Christian bands who sound a certain way are doing it precisely because they want to sound like the world? Really? All of them? Like, you actually know every Christian band that sounds like that personally and you've talked to them about their motivations? Seriously? No? Well then stop presuming to know something you don't.

4. Jesus was presumed to be a drunkard and a glutton because of how he associated with the world. You know what that means? That he was drinking and eating copiously like they did. I most definitely do believe that Jesus would rock out to "evil" bands right along with their fans. I think Jesus would go to Voodoo Fest, get in the front row, and rock out to Ozzy Osbourne.

[rock_show_host]

I play bass on my church's worship team. Of the professional bassists who've most influenced me, very few (if any) are Christians, but studying their techniques and styles has made me a much better musician, which in turn has made me better able to serve the church as a worship leader. So from what I can see, God has actually used secular music as a valuable ministry tool in my life.

[slap_j]

The whole world is God's. Why cede the great works of art in the secular world to Satan? Does Satan really inspire such timeless beauty? Man is made in the image of God. And every last one of them (excepting Jesus) was a miserable sinner. Let's not give Satan or "the world," corrosive forces that they are, more credit than they are due.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by slap_j

The whole world is God's. Why cede the great works of art in the secular world to Satan? Does Satan really inspire such timeless beauty? Man is made in the image of God. And every last one of them (excepting Jesus) was a miserable sinner. Let's not give Satan or "the world," corrosive forces that they are, more credit than they are due.

Exactly.

In my opinion, one of the greatest songs ever composed is Greensleeves. If you read the original lyrics, beyond a few vague references to God, there's no evidence that the writer was a Christian. It's basically a secular love song. Yet most Christians, at some point in their lives, have sung it in the form of the hymn, "What Child Is This," and I've never heard anyone make a fuss. Why is that? Does the anti-secular crowd make an exception simply because the song is more old-fashioned sounding, more in line with what stereotypically traditional Christian music sounds like?