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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:01 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
yes i do know

belive it or not you dont have to be a sucide bomber to know you wont make it out alive
But Shawn, you're talking to professional musicians. I'm sorry, but we know how the whole music industry works better than you. You're talking about a really tiny part of the industry that can get away with not reading music that you're trying to present as the whole truth. The fact is (not opinion: FACT) that the fast majority of professional working musicians have to know how to read standard notation. Period.

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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:01 PM   #107
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Option 3: Write your own darn song.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:02 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer. View Post
But Shawn, you're talking to professional musicians. I'm sorry, but we know how the whole music industry works. You're talking about a really tiny part of the industry that can get away with not reading music that you're trying to present as the whole truth. The fact is (not opinion: FACT) that the fast majority of professional working musicians have to know how to read standard notation. Period.
show proof
that you HAVE to know it to be a pro
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Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:04 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
how is it simplar and fastist?
dose not ame secne at all
Simple, it just is. I've had more experience with it and I can read it just as easily as tab, often easier than tab because it shows me more information about the performance


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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
jsut becuse tab is suckey for you dose not mean its sucky for evrey one eles right?
I didn't say tab was sucky, I said it doesn't work for my playing situations there's a difference. I can read tab, and I can read standard notation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
that is easy what is hard is this
you have to combine them together (dots of notes that hoenslty get tasngled up when i look at them
and if they jump around to much its really hard to tell if its on the line or not more so if your rushing


thats really hard no mater who you are
No, it's not hard. Like all things in life it gets easier as you practice. Reading books was once hard for you also, but now you know how to do it and it's not so hard right?


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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
1. why do you need to comnucate with them? alll you need to know is your place and do your job
But how do I know how to do my job if I can't read what I'm supposed to play?

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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
2. if one makes you learn faster then take it execely if you have 5 miuints tp learn somethoing
I agree, and reading the standard notation score in front of me is 10x faster and easier than going and trying to hunt down tab that doesn't even exist for the music I'm playing.

Which one sounds faster to you:
1.Reading and playing the score in front of me
2. Finding a computer, searching for tab, writing out my own tab when I can't find it online and then playing the part

Personally I'll take choice 1 any day, how about you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
the turth is

you guys are saying yeah but if this and this and that and that and then this hapeeind you whold ahve to

if i was the last man on earth i might have to start huting
but odds of it hapinign? very slim

homescholled in the milde of no where
and besides the shool I went to before only had choir and they did not read music (or any public school)
now privet schools they did
And that's ok. If tab is what you want to use and it's what works for you great! Keep using it. But who are you to tell me what's best for me when you've never done the type of professional work I have? If you've never played in a pit orchestra how do you know how to do it better than I do when I've played in countless ones?

Tab will work great for you playing in garage bands, but I guarantee you will never get a gig playing sessions, theater, orchestral, wedding, jazz or many others if you don't know how to read standard notation. If you don't believe me go audition for one and see for yourself. But if you don't have any desire to do that type of serious playing, then that's ok too.

(sorry for double posting...)
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:10 PM   #110
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Brain...exploding...

I'm probably going to let the day finish out...maybe. The circles have continued.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:11 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
okay then i cant find them but that dose not prove anything
Ok, thanks for being honest. Yes it does prove something. It proves that tab won't work for my playing needs. If I can only read tab then I have no way of playing this music since it doesn't exist in tab right? But, since it is written in standard notation if I know how to read standard notation then I'm all set and I can play the gig. Make sense?

I'm not going to search for those songs, that's not the point. I'm not arguing that tab is inferior because it has less songs. You are tellling me that tab is superior and I'm asking you to show me how it is superior for me and my specific needs as a professional guitarist in this situation. I need to play the score to Fiddler on the Roof, I don't need to play those other songs. By not finding it you've shown me that tab won't work for me and isn't superior for me because the songs I need don't exist in tab.

And as a side note, do you know why those songs don't exist in tab? Because the composer wrote them in standard notation, and the musicians who play them read them in standard notation. Players on that level don't bother with tab.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:26 PM   #112
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On another note (no pun intended), it should be added that with standard notation, you can pick up any sheet music (in particular, basic melodies (such as vocals) or a simple bass line) and play them on a guitar. If they were in tab (which is impossible to tab for vocals) you would have to make sure the tuning is right, and you would have to be sure you transposed it from that instrument to guitar correctly.

Standard notation, you should be able to look at it and go "Oh look" and play it without the need for that. Of course, if you were wanting to simplify it to make it easier to remember, then it may help to change it to tab.

Even so, if you're doing that then, it should only be used as a reference.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:26 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
Simple, it just is. I've had more experience with it and I can read it just as easily as tab, often easier than tab because it shows me more information about the performance
which do you use more
tab or reading musc?
i figure reading msuic
now if you praticed tab just as much you whold be jsut as good if not beter


Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post

I didn't say tab was sucky, I said it doesn't work for my playing situations there's a difference. I can read tab, and I can read standard notation.
I can read tab and standerd
i cant play standead


Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
No, it's not hard. Like all things in life it gets easier as you practice. Reading books was once hard for you also, but now you know how to do it and it's not so hard right?
ive always been good at reading i was reading at two (those baby books to kick start)
so i cant rember

and reading still is hard i ahve to think of the words and what they mean

you see for me i get B's and D's mixed up all the time
sometimes i read words backwards
now give me a choice betwen a book and a pre recirded one i will take the pre recired one



Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
But how do I know how to do my job if I can't read what I'm supposed to play?
how do gutiist play by ear with out knwong what note it is?
they just do



Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
I agree, and reading the standard notation score in front of me is 10x faster and easier than going and trying to hunt down tab that doesn't even exist for the music I'm playing.
lets ee here

you have a note thats an E yes but where on the neck you know its a high E but thats it
so you go to a posiong then try it no
go to another and add a note might work but a bit of a streach
you go to the next note no way

next postiong

by the time your done witht hat if the tab is online i would have found it and be using it
Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
Which one sounds faster to you:
1.Reading and playing the score in front of me
2. Finding a computer, searching for tab, writing out my own tab when I can't find it online and then playing the part

Personally I'll take choice 1 any day, how about you?
see above p;lease



Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
And that's ok. If tab is what you want to use and it's what works for you great! Keep using it. But who are you to tell me what's best for me when you've never done the type of professional work I have? If you've never played in a pit orchestra how do you know how to do it better than I do when I've played in countless ones?
becuse i know the simple fact is it takes time for you to figure out which postion your in
and even if you dont
you still have to work it together while tab tells me the freta and srtign
soi i dotn have to wait
Quote:
Tab will work great for you playing in garage bands, but I guarantee you will never get a gig playing sessions, theater, orchestral, wedding, jazz or many others if you don't know how to read standard notation. If you don't believe me go audition for one and see for yourself. But if you don't have any desire to do that type of serious playing, then that's ok too.

(sorry for double posting...)
i do plan to play siroouse with out standerd if you dont belive me thats you but we shall see

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
On another note (no pun intended), it should be added that with standard notation, you can pick up any sheet music (in particular, basic melodies (such as vocals) or a simple bass line) and play them on a guitar. If they were in tab (which is impossible to tab for vocals) you would have to make sure the tuning is right, and you would have to be sure you transposed it from that instrument to guitar correctly.

Standard notation, you should be able to look at it and go "Oh look" and play it without the need for that. Of course, if you were wanting to simplify it to make it easier to remember, then it may help to change it to tab.

Even so, if you're doing that then, it should only be used as a reference.
Guns N' Roses - Sweet Child o' Mine Guitar Tab | Songsterr
they seem to know just what to hit for vocals
and you can play it on guitar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:31 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
becuse i know the simple fact is it takes time for you to figure out which postion your in
and even if you dont
you still have to work it together while tab tells me the freta and srtign
soi i dotn have to wait
Really? you know I don't know how to figure out my positions? When was it you watched me play?

It's really not hard to work out positions, once you get some practice at it and know what you're doing you just look at the line and know where it will work best. It's very simple and doesn't require any pause to figure out.

Once again you simply don't know what you're talking about here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
i do plan to play siroouse with out standerd if you dont belive me thats you but we shall see
Then good luck to you. Some day you will look back on this thread and you will understand. Until then I can promise you no one will ever hire you for those type of serious gigs if you can't read standard notation. Trust me, I've been doing this type of playing for 10 years. If you don't believe me go out and try for yourself.

Standard notation really is easy, you just need to practice
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:34 PM   #115
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Okay. Rephrasing my point:
You know that bass tab and guitar tab aren't the same, right? Why? They have different number of strings at different tuning.

A vocalist won't have tab. Why? It's impossible to tab for their instrument. They can't see the melody. They need standard notation. And if you are required to play their melody for whatever reason, say you wanted to do something different with a song, you would need to know their language (standard notation).

And trying to transpose vocals -> guitar, is NOT easy. Especially if you don't know the key they're singing in.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:35 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 View Post
Then good luck to you. Some day you will look back on this thread and you will understand. Until then I can promise you no one will ever hire you for those type of serious gigs if you can't read standard notation. If you don't believe me go out and try for yourself.

Standard notation really is easy, you just need to practice
one problem for you eazy for me hard

and trust me i am pratcing just like witht he time thing

"time is eazy"
no idea how many vids and six months later

"i did it!" (witht he help of power tabs might i add)


i dont think any one of us what to go trough that again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Okay. Rephrasing my point:
You know that bass tab and guitar tab aren't the same, right? Why? They have different number of strings at different tuning.

A vocalist won't have tab. Why? It's impossible to tab for their instrument. They can't see the melody. They need standard notation. And if you are required to play their melody for whatever reason, say you wanted to do something different with a song, you would need to know their language (standard notation).

And trying to transpose vocals -> guitar, is NOT easy. Especially if you don't know the key they're singing in.

why cant standerd music just say the leter on it


the highest luine is F so instead if a dot make it an F
evrye one can read that


but no
it has to be more complicated

point is standerd msuic is ahrd then it has to be
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:42 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
one problem for you eazy for me hard

and trust me i am pratcing just like witht he time thing

"time is eazy"
no idea how many vids and six months later

"i did it!" (witht he help of power tabs might i add)


i dont think any one of us what to go trough that again
It is hard at first, I understand. But I promise it will get easier as you work on it. If you really do want to play professionally some day then you owe it to yourself to stick at the standard notation and ditch the tab. In the world of professionaly guitar playing tab is a dead end. Reading standard notation will open up the doors to allow you to do what you want to do. I promise you no one will hire a guitarist who can't read standard notation, because there are 1000 other guys who can read it lined up behind you. It was hard for me at first too, but if I didn't work at it I wouldn't be able to do the playing I love today. Good luck!
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:44 PM   #118
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Quote:
why cant standerd music just say the leter on it


the highest luine is F so instead if a dot make it an F
evrye one can read that


but no
it has to be more complicated

point is standerd msuic is ahrd then it has to be
Actually, the reason that doesn't happen is because the staff can be transposed between three main clefs (Alto, Bass and Treble) and, if I understand correctly, where they sit on the lines can also be moved which effects where the pitch is (correct me if I'm wrong, more knowledgeable people).

You can write that letter above there. That's a great way to learn if you're unsure. But if you rely to much on that, it, too, does more harm than good.

Quote:
But I promise it will get easier as you work on it.
This.

I tell you, I don't read standard notation so well as I used to (mostly due to tab), but at the very least, it is vital to understand how it works if you want to expand your ability to play well.
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But He was pierced for our transgressions
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The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:49 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Actually, the reason that doesn't happen is because the staff can be transposed between three main clefs (Alto, Bass and Treble) and, if I understand correctly, where they sit on the lines can also be moved which effects where the pitch is (correct me if I'm wrong, more knowledgeable people).

You can write that letter above there. That's a great way to learn if you're unsure. But if you rely to much on that, it, too, does more harm than good.



This.

I tell you, I don't read standard notation so well as I used to (mostly due to tab), but at the very least, it is vital to understand how it works if you want to expand your ability to play well.
what dose reaindg music ahve to do with playing music well?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 11:50 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
what dose reaindg music ahve to do with playing music well?
How can you play a piece as it was meant to be written if you don't see how it was written?
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Warning: This journal may contain diary

But He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
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