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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
how long before they ahve a guitar program that you can take with you (they alredy ahve it on the iphone and what not)
plus most bands i see have a laptop with them at gigs
and a lot of msuusions get their music sheets off the internet
so i really dont see your point

rember i said 20+ years

and no i dont know any one who is skilled enough to play a pice within a miunit or two of looking at it (unless its simple and evrey one knows it)

reading music takes a lot og times
plius the prgrams are often free

sheet music needs a long time of learning

and if someone gave me a msuic sheet i would be in the dark becuse i've only been studying it for only 5 months


whats to stop someone having a cell phone (since almost evrey one has one now and imagin in 20+ years) and ahving the rpgoram with you?
where evr you go its there


they both have their cons and pros

music sheets ahve more cons
I've been to a few hundred shows over the years and... I have seen one band with a laptop on stage, ever.

Even so, no bands I know of have music in front of them. Most all play with the music memorized.


Tab is at best a conversion, after the fact. It is lazy, not the future of music. I think all of us go through a tab phase. In time it becomes a hindrance because of its limitations.

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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
You're getting confused. My point was if standard notation is dead, the programmers won't know how to graphically display the music. Think about this. If all the engineers died and so did all car engines, and nobody else knew, how would you make that car go?

Standard notation, is one of the only viable (and in fact, easiest) methods of conveying rhyhtm and melody.



Only if you can't read standard notation. In all honesty, I can barely read it off the fly, and in all honesty, I'll have to stare at an entire line for a few moments and read each individual note to understand. But I would much rather be able to look at a sheet and see the rhythm instantly, than have to flail about on a tab until I find something that works.

Don't get me wrong, in many instances tab is a lot easier to read. But unless you already know the song, it's no good.
I use sonster to learn songs i knver even known before

and plus i cant tell the guitar form the durms or bass or othert gutiar

i have no problem with it at all


also once again
the tab prgromasd tell you evreything the readin music do
ecept you can kick out the reading msuic part
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
I use sonster to learn songs i knver even known before

and plus i cant tell the guitar form the durms or bass or othert gutiar

i have no problem with it at all


also once again
the tab prgromasd tell you evreything the readin music do
ecept you can kick out the reading msuic part
Okay, let me put it in more simple phrasing:
How the program works:
- Tab is made, using standard notation or another.
- Program converts standard notation to tab (or vice versa, but the latter is usually done poorly)
- You download tab, and load it in program
- Program displays tab and sheet music
- Program plays the MIDI file USING THE STANDARD NOTATION as a guide (AKA. How you get the rhythm and melody)

If no one knows standard notation, no one can program anything like this. You can't build a car engine without knowing how one works.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq View Post
I've been to a few hundred shows over the years and... I have seen one band with a laptop on stage, ever.

Even so, no bands I know of have music in front of them. Most all play with the music memorized.


Tab is at best a conversion, after the fact. It is lazy, not the future of music. I think all of us go through a tab phase. In time it becomes a hindrance because of its limitations.
i really dont see how tab is lazy
what limtation dose songster have? other then the fact some will be wrong (the same with reading music)
it tells you the time
it tells you the rythm
it tells you what ever other iunstment is doing
it even a lot of times has the drum tack (which is tabed)

you can never of heard the song beofre and you can learn (and faster then reading muisc at that)
plus why is it lazy? if your just going to remember even if you look at the sheets which makes more sence
the thing that takes 6 months to what ever amount of years to learn? let alone master
or something that takes 5 miunts to learn and you can get the song done in thirty miunts or so? (depnding on your skill level of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Okay, let me put it in more simple phrasing:
How the program works:
- Tab is made, using standard notation or another.
- Program converts standard notation to tab (or vice versa, but the latter is usually done poorly)
- You download tab, and load it in program
- Program displays tab and sheet music
- Program plays the MIDI file USING THE STANDARD NOTATION as a guide (AKA. How you get the rhythm and melody)

If no one knows standard notation, no one can program anything like this. You can't build a car engine without knowing how one works.
dude you type the number of the fret its on on the string its on and apears on scren
its not conveted (aloughto you can convert it) if you wanted

remeber i said it would never truly die out just like horse riding wont
but it will no longer be the norm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
you can never of heard the song beofre and you can learn (and faster then reading muisc at that)
plus why is it lazy? if your just going to remember even if you look at the sheets which makes more sence
the thing that takes 6 months to what ever amount of years to learn? let alone master
or something that takes 5 miunts to learn and you can get the song done in thirty miunts or so? (depnding on your skill level of course)
The problem is that you're coming at this from a very biased angle. You're only looking at this from the perspective of a guitar player, not as a classically trained musician. A classically trained musician is already going to know how to read music. Learning to read music doesn't take a very long time, it just takes repetition. I can't sight read music better than I can sight read tab, but I'm certain that if I took the time to practice reading music I could be proficient in reading music to the extent of being able to read it as fast as reading tablature in a matter of weeks.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:29 PM   #21
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Another brainwave for an analogy:
Let's say you come up with the best idea for a story ever. Sort of as if you beat George Lucas to writing Star Wars. You quickly jot these ideas down on a bit of paper. At best, it gives a vague description of the plot.

You can hand this to a scriptwriter and he may be able to make something of it.

You hand this to a director and he has no idea what he's meant to make of it, as it has no character descriptions, no script. It may not even have the write context written down.

In this case: your rough ideas = tab. Script writer = someone who may have heard the song the tab is based off. The director = someone who needs to know what it is, but has never had any other exposure to it (such as a fill in guitarist).

You can't write down a rough plan of something and expect it to be readable to anyone but yourself. That's the beauty of standard notation. It is, at least, a universal language. If you can't read it, you can at least discern the melody and rhythm.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteve View Post
The problem is that you're coming at this from a very biased angle. You're only looking at this from the perspective of a guitar player, not as a classically trained musician. A classically trained musician is already going to know how to read music. Learning to read music doesn't take a very long time, it just takes repetition. I can't sight read music better than I can sight read tab, but I'm certain that if I took the time to practice reading music I could be proficient in reading music to the extent of being able to read it as fast as reading tablature in a matter of weeks.
as i said I've been doing reading msuic evrey day for the last four or five months (its been 12-19 weeks seince i started)
and im no where close to geting it "down"
nor is any one eles in those guitar lessons, they may be father then me but they to have been doing it for 6 or so months

took me five miunts to learn how to use songster

(not saying i wont learn standed music)

just saying what i think will hapeen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Another brainwave for an analogy:
Let's say you come up with the best idea for a story ever. Sort of as if you beat George Lucas to writing Star Wars. You quickly jot these ideas down on a bit of paper. At best, it gives a vague description of the plot.

You can hand this to a scriptwriter and he may be able to make something of it.

You hand this to a director and he has no idea what he's meant to make of it, as it has no character descriptions, no script. It may not even have the write context written down.

In this case: your rough ideas = tab. Script writer = someone who may have heard the song the tab is based off. The director = someone who needs to know what it is, but has never had any other exposure to it (such as a fill in guitarist).

You can't write down a rough plan of something and expect it to be readable to anyone but yourself. That's the beauty of standard notation. It is, at least, a universal language. If you can't read it, you can at least discern the melody and rhythm.
Songster is also universal as I said
Tabs are more and more becoming the norm every one can read them (every one meaning most)


its not a rough draft
you get the beging and the end of it you get evreything

it tells you time and rythem

it tells you what tuning (and some can trasnpone for you)
and you get the medoly to

look at the link for songster and tell me you cant get the rythem form that
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:35 PM   #23
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It's using a condensed form of standard notation! It still is a necessity, otherwise those symbols are just lines!
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But He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
It's using a condensed form of standard notation! It still is a necessity, otherwise those symbols are just lines!
I'm not sure what you mean

to me if the two lines are in a bar with no rest then it is half notes

if four then quater (but you dont even ahve to know the names of them)
if eight ect ect ect ect


its very eazy

nothing to do with reading msuic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
I'm not sure what you mean

to me if the two lines are in a bar with no rest then it is half notes

if four then quater (but you dont even ahve to know the names of them)
if eight ect ect ect ect


its very eazy

nothing to do with reading msuic
I meant the lines on the bottom that tell you the rhythm. But since you're using that logic, what if there are three notes? Two crotchets and a minim? Or if it's a rhythm like quaver-semiquaver-quaver? Or if the composer has used triplets (three notes in the space of two)?
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Bass - Yamaha TRBX 505
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Electric Guitars - Fender Classic '72 Telecaster Thinline (2007), Maton Mastersound, Epiphone Les Paul Studio Chameleon
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Warning: This journal may contain diary

But He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
I meant the lines on the bottom that tell you the rhythm. But since you're using that logic, what if there are three notes? Two crotchets and a minim? Or if it's a rhythm like quaver-semiquaver-quaver? Or if the composer has used triplets (three notes in the space of two)?
If you look at the rendering of JerryC's "Canon Rock" on that site, you can see how they notate triplets.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:51 PM   #27
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Bill this is a rough song i did on the prgrams
i coveted it and what not but here it is

with no reading msuic ivolved i made this song
it tooke me maybe half a day
and thats beucs i just suck at making music

and i did make a mistak right before the solo the main rift is played once or twice more then it should be
but that was just me rushing to make it to show you
Attached Files
File Type: mid may i have this dance.mid (19.5 KB, 29 views)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.

Last edited by Kentl; 07-27-2010 at 04:54 PM. Reason: oppss
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Unread 07-27-2010, 04:58 PM   #28
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The problem is that you made this song...

I don't really see what that has to do with the topic at hand. My sister started making songs when she was six with a very basic knowledge of music.

I guess I'm not understanding what you're trying to show here.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 05:02 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by thesteve View Post
The problem is that you made this song...

I don't really see what that has to do with the topic at hand. My sister started making songs when she was six with a very basic knowledge of music.

I guess I'm not understanding what you're trying to show here.
Bill said you cant make music with tabs (I thought I had set it to copy I guess not)

"It has no compositional usage." is what i thgout i had set to qoute
I'm shwoing him that with tab (not using stander notation) i made a song
and if i can do it anyone can do it
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFK14 View Post
Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 05:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
Bill said you cant make music with tabs (I thought I had set it to copy I guess not)

"It has no compositional usage." is what i thgout i had set to qoute
I'm shwoing him that with tab (not using stander notation) i made a song
and if i can do it anyone can do it
Fair enough...

Like was previously mentioned, the stuff on Songsterr is probably most accurately described as a hybrid between tab and standard notation. That being said, if you decided that you wanted to have a violin player or a trumpeter on your song, the tab would still be useless to them.
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