[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by zedman

On a song by song basis--no it's not the same thing, but when having to be note for note on every song is the point--yeah, it is being a slave to the song.

It's also the reasoning behind it that can make it being a slave to the song.

So if you play some songs note for note because it works best, then it is not being a slave to the song, but when you are playing every song note for note--without the option of changing it--that's slavery to the song--and that is boring.

And that has been my point all along.
You can play the song note for note or you can change it--whichever works best.

Funny. I thought your point was about being a "slave to the song", whatever that may mean, because you've stated that as your opinion several times.
And that's cool if it's your opinion.
It's also cool that I believe your opinion to be wrong.

Again, I can be a note-for-note guy...and there is no "slavery" involved...and I can be as improvisational as your favorite jazz musician.
There is worship to be had in all of it. After all, worship is "more than a song, for a song in itself is not what [God] requires"...

[Rainer.]

I've played lots and lots and lots of boring music in my life because it's what people want/need to hear.

It's not about being interested in what you play, really. It's about playing what ever it is you play to the best of your musical ability, and being sensitive to your role as a musician and a worshiper.

I don't play worship music at my church to be gratified as a musician, I play to be gratified in simple worship of my Lord, and to bring others to that place as well.

This doesn't have a lot to do with the original topic, I know, haha, but my theory is pretty simple. Play for the worship and things will come together, play for yourself and it'll always sound like things are falling apart.

[onebrickshy]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

I've played lots and lots and lots of boring music in my life because it's what people want/need to hear.

It's not about being interested in what you play, really. It's about playing what ever it is you play to the best of your musical ability, and being sensitive to your role as a musician and a worshiper.

I don't play worship music at my church to be gratified as a musician, I play to be gratified in simple worship of my Lord, and to bring others to that place as well.

This doesn't have a lot to do with the original topic, I know, haha, but my theory is pretty simple. Play for the worship and things will come together, play for yourself and it'll always sound like things are falling apart.

you hit the nail on the head.

I find most worship music, dreadfully boring as a musician. As a worshiper, they are amazing.

So here is my not so helpful answer:
It depends on the musicians - a more talented and tight group is easier to deviate from the note for notes on the CD, while a group that practices for 1 hour a week will find it easier to practice and play it exactly as it is written

I play/have played with numerous groups of varying talent and chemistry. THe current group I lead with choose to lead note for note as not to distract the Body. However, we & anyone who wants gather on Thursday nights for worship at a local house. This time is a musical, worship filled free-for-all that allows for musical release in a setting that it is conducive to that type of worship.

[Gaetano Paul]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

r

It's not about being interested in what you play, really. It's about playing what ever it is you play to the best of your musical ability, and being sensitive to your role as a musician and a worshiper.

I don't play worship music at my church to be gratified as a musician, I play to be gratified in simple worship of my Lord, and to bring others to that place as well.

I hear what you are saying, but I still feel a disconnect with "playing skillfully to the Lord" and "its not about being interested musically, its about worship."

God is the one who made us with these musical areas of our beings, and obviously I am not talking about being in a worship band only to gratify oneself musically. This type of attitude, I feel, is why worship leaders and teachers of the church most often have to look to the secular avenue to find examples of good creative music. I remember the teacher of the worship side of the ministry school, MorningStar University, I went to had to bring his class outside of the church realm, out to Bonaroo, for a good solid musical field trip for his class.
I believe this musical boringness and sleepiness is fading off of the church as the Lord is waking up His people to this fact. I believe the Church will be the place here the most skilled, creative, expressive, and challenging music will come out of. I mean come on, we have the creator of creativity living inside of us! ;End rant/soap box;

We have got a River of life inside of us! How can we settle for boring, mundane and mediocre music? We should be gushing with cutting edge musicalness. Is that a word? spell check does not think so. Also I am finding it interesting some of the heated comments that are coming out of this thread.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by Gaetano Paul

We have got a River of life inside of us! How can we settle for boring, mundane and mediocre music? We should be gushing with cutting edge musicalness. Is that a word? spell check does not think so. Also I am finding it interesting some of the heated comments that are coming out of this thread.

I think there's always going to be a separation of "camps" on this. Some of the most interesting music I've heard has been music that wasn't particularly cutting edge. There are all kinds of successful church models in terms of worship music. I think the foremost thing when leading worship is to remember who you are leading. Often I feel that as musicians we are over-educated in the music department and as such want to make things more complicated because that's where our knowledge of music takes us.

[Rainer.]

It's like going over to grandma's to cook Thankgiving dinner, but instead of a nice roast turkey and stuffing, you are making thirty varieties of sashimi. Sure, the latter is much more skillful and exotic, but it's the wrong stuff to bring people together on that day. Or it's like taking the family outside after the same Thanksgiving dinner for pictures and turning into a study of the abstract form of the family rather than just taking photos for grandma to put in her photo album (I fancy myself a pretty decent cook and photographer, so forgive my analogies ).

I understand that it's difficult to call a single G major chord enough when the works of Mozart are running through your head.

But sometimes even I go into a dark, quiet room with my guitar and play just a single chord. E, or C... or G, it doesn't really matter. And just listen to it, really listen to it. The harmony, the tones blending together just so. There is beauty in simplicity. And when I can go up to worship and can hear the joyful noise, it's a blessing.

In my opinion, creativity, technical skill, and diversity are only part of musicianship, perhaps even a small part. The rest of musicianship is things like sensitivity, to the group and to the audience, I know why I'm playing; precision, I'm going to play this open E, and it's going to sound just right; conviction, if I care about playing to the best of my ability, then other people will care enough to listen...

But most of musicianship is just love. Love of people around you will help you play what they want to hear. Love of music will help you make whatever you're playing sound like the best it's ever been played. And of course, love of worshiping our God will help you focus less on what's being played, and more on who it's being played for.


I can fry an egg with my eyes closed, but getting up to make Sunday breakfast with my parents is always special.


And that ends my little spiel.

[Gaetano Paul]

GOod spiel Rainer, I am digging those analogies

[taiko]

Originally Posted by 1/2-Fast Player

Then there's the matter of skill limitations, and practice time limitations. We usually get each Sunday's music on the preceding Tuesday, and have a rehearsal on Thursday night. So, I have Tue and Wed evenings to learn the material, and there's usually at least one or two new pieces. I simply don't have the skill to learn some of the more complex lead parts in that time frame. When I'm not going to be able to duplicate a part, I'll create my own part that stays true to the overall feel, tone, rhythym, chord structure, etc.

Nobody says you have to sound exactly like the recording. If that were the point, we'd forget having a band and just work with recorded tracks. Since we don't want to do that, we make the adjustments necessary for us to play the song so that it's recognizable, within our limitations.

Once upon a time a Louis Armstrong, a Benny Goodman, or a Ray Charles were trained in school to be professional musicians by the public schools. it was vocational education little different from any other shop class. The recording industry and mobile DJs have taken over musician was a career track for many. As each year passes fewer and fewer pros are produced as few can earn a living making music and DJs can replicate the expected experience better then musicians can. Fewer people every year are able to replicate recordings of professionals and those who can are going to the highest bidder church

While one church in town may have many of the better musicians around who are able to replicate a recording most of the rest make do with the skill of the amateurs doing their best to "play skillfully" I can run skillfully, eat right. hire trainers but I will never be Usian Bolt. The same factors come into effect if I try to replicate the skill of musicians and recording engineers for any given song.

Besides I go to a diverse church, part African, part White, part Black American. As a congregation, those who listen to Christian music outside of church are listening to different versions of the same mega hit songs. The version of a song that some think the congregation "expects" to hear, that we are supposedly covering, may have only been heard by the team member who suggested it be introduced to the church and maybe a couple of others. The rest of the church may have never heard a song, or heard another artist in another style interpret the song before we introduce it to the church.

Even in larger churches with more professional and skilled musicians to draw upon there is pressure from singers to use "performance tracks". Even though when they do the singers can not match the original recordings singer or if it is a live track which became a hit can not match the worship leading ad libs of the original worship pastor.

We should all do our best if that means transcribing and coping Lincoln Brewster for one guy, playing quarter note strums of cowboy or so-called open chords for somebody else then so be it.

[dailybeans]

We write most of our songs, but when we do other songs, we usually change intros and things like that; our musos change a lot of the parts while keeping some of the originals, and it combines
to an incredibly unique sound!

We're having an album recording next Sunday, it's gonna be heaps awesome, can't wait!

[zedman]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

Funny. I thought your point was about being a "slave to the song", whatever that may mean, because you've stated that as your opinion several times.
And that's cool if it's your opinion.
It's also cool that I believe your opinion to be wrong.

Again, I can be a note-for-note guy...and there is no "slavery" involved...and I can be as improvisational as your favorite jazz musician.
There is worship to be had in all of it. After all, worship is "more than a song, for a song in itself is not what [God] requires"...

You missed the part about attitude towards it--there's a difference between doing is best and doing what's already been done--because it has to be that way.

[crazymoose]

Unfortunately the worship teams at my school don't even have note-for-note as an option. I've tried to make it happen before with new songs and it always ends up that I'm the only person on the team who actually figures out my part in the song and I end up scrambling to try and teach everyone else a super simplified part on their various instruments that might barely fit, then everyone hates the song because it takes too much effort and we never do it again. Fun stuff.

[Gaetano Paul]

Originally Posted by crazymoose

Unfortunately the worship teams at my school don't even have note-for-note as an option. I've tried to make it happen before with new songs and it always ends up that I'm the only person on the team who actually figures out my part in the song and I end up scrambling to try and teach everyone else a super simplified part on their various instruments that might barely fit, then everyone hates the song because it takes too much effort and we never do it again. Fun stuff.

I hear you bro. Keep pressing in for excellence either way, the Lord sees.