[metropolis4]

This is a recent study done that confirms findings of another study done in 2006. The studies both found that there is a negative correlation between immigrant populations and crime rates, meaning the higher the immigrant population in a given area, the lower the crime rate.
Also interesting to note the fact that crime rates in the Arizona border towns have remained constant for quite some time.

Sorry I don't have a link to the actual study, but here is an article discussing it.

Rise in immigration may help explain drop in violent crimes, says CU-Boulder study | ScienceBlog.com

I heard a statement from an immigrant from India about this that makes a lot of sense. He pointed out the fact that the consequences of breaking a law are much higher for an immigrant than they are for a citizen, so there is more of a deterant for them. Think about it, if you are someone who just spent a lot of time and money trying to get here the last thing you'd want is to get shipped back where you came from. Many of the illegal immigrants have used all the financial resources they have and risked everything to bring their family here in hopes that things will be better here than where they came from. The last thing they want is to lose all of that by getting arrested.

I see this a lot with families I work with. Many of them are very afraid of me, even though I assure them I'm not going to check their legal status, and for the purposes of my job I don't care. Many of them don't even access help that they desperately need out of a fear of being found out.


So, we've now debunked the myth that illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy and resources, and we've also debunked the myth that they are causing increases in crime rates. Any others out there?

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

So, we've now debunked the myth that illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy and resources, and we've also debunked the myth that they are causing increases in crime rates. Any others out there?

Cooties?

[supersoldier71]

Can you debunk the myth that they're breaking the law?

[Epaphras]

Originally Posted by supersoldier71

Can you debunk the myth that they're breaking the law?

Breaking the civil law =/= being a criminal. If that were true than MLK was a criminal.

[supersoldier71]

Criminal;
1. Of, involving, or having the nature of crime: criminal abuse.
2. Relating to the administration of penal law.
3. a. Guilty of crime.
b. Characteristic of a criminal

4. One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary

[tlj009]

I heard a statement from an immigrant from India about this that makes a lot of sense. He pointed out the fact that the consequences of breaking a law are much higher for an immigrant than they are for a citizen, so there is more of a deterant for them. Think about it, if you are someone who just spent a lot of time and money trying to get here the last thing you'd want is to get shipped back where you came from. Many of the illegal immigrants have used all the financial resources they have and risked everything to bring their family here in hopes that things will be better here than where they came from. The last thing they want is to lose all of that by getting arrested.

Don't you think that it is equally likely that these same illegal immigrants don't report crimes because of the same fear of being deported?

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by tlj009

Don't you think that it is equally likely that these same illegal immigrants don't report crimes because of the same fear of being deported?

How is deportation a risk of reporting a crime for an illegal immigrant? Well, unless they're reporting themselves I suppose.

[athanatos]

Originally Posted by slap_j

How is deportation a risk of reporting a crime for an illegal immigrant? Well, unless they're reporting themselves I suppose.

When reporting a crime, you have to have identification and some verification for what rights you have that are alleged to be violated. They need a frame of reference in dealing with you, and an investigation revealing that you ought to be deported would come up if they have that frame of reference.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by athanatos

When reporting a crime, you have to have identification

Are you certain about this? I thought you were only required to produce ID when there's reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is taking place.

and some verification for what rights you have that are alleged to be violated.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Constitution is applicable to everyone within the jurisdiction of the United States. It's easy to prove whether you're in the United States or not.

They need a frame of reference in dealing with you, and an investigation revealing that you ought to be deported would come up if they have that frame of reference.

Why are they investigating the citizenship of the person reporting a crime?

[tlj009]

Slap_j. The police procedures really don't matter in this case. It is the fear that motivates people. When people are doing something wrong, they are much less likely to report on someone else out of fear that their own crime will be discovered. If you have ever worked along side a group of illegals and had a police car pull up to the job site, you would be amazed at how fast your fellow employees disappeared. I don't know if they have a reason to fear the police or not, but in my experience illegal aliens do fear the police.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by tlj009

Slap_j. The police procedures really don't matter in this case. It is the fear that motivates people. When people are doing something wrong, they are much less likely to report on someone else out of fear that their own crime will be discovered. If you have ever worked along side a group of illegals and had a police car pull up to the job site, you would be amazed at how fast your fellow employees disappeared. I don't know if they have a reason to fear the police or not, but in my experience illegal aliens do fear the police.

You're right, of course, psychology is important. I suppose there isn't much way of knowing how many illegals report crime. They're not going to identify as illegals for the sake of gathering accurate data. Heh.

[scared2mosh]

I'm not sure I buy the accuracy of the report, but I'll leave my opinion at that.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by supersoldier71

Criminal;
1. Of, involving, or having the nature of crime: criminal abuse.
2. Relating to the administration of penal law.
3. a. Guilty of crime.
b. Characteristic of a criminal

4. One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary

A whole website dedicated to the horrors of illegal immigrants... not exactly the most reputable site. I don't see any citations for where any information actually came from, and I see too many propaganda statements thrown in the middle of "facts" to be taken seriously. This website you posted is itemizing every wrong thing an immigrant has ever done. The study I posted weighed facts to come to a conclusion. The problem with that website is that by simply listing every wrong thing done and picking numbers that sound shocking they aren't providing any perspective or framework to what those numbers actually mean. It's the same way people often use graphs and statistics in misleading ways to try to show data supporting a cause more than it actually does. You need someone to actually go through and weigh the data and put it in perspective to show what it really means, rather than being reactionary and trying to make it fit your agenda.

Sure crimes are going to be commited by people who are here illegally, just like crimes will be commited by people who are here legally. It's human nature; unless you're suggesting that illegal immigrants are somehow more prone to crime than Americans, which seems like a baseless ethnocentric asumption to me.

So your only issue is the fact that they are here illegally? Then why don't we grant amnesty and make the path to citizenship easier?

Originally Posted by tlj009

Don't you think that it is equally likely that these same illegal immigrants don't report crimes because of the same fear of being deported?

This statement would have to assume two things:

1. only illegal immigrants report crimes commited by illegal immigrants
2. they are secretly commiting crimes that never get reported

Are you saying they don't report themselves?
Or that they are only committing crimes against other illegal immigrants?

If you look at the study they took reporting into account in how the study was done. They focused on crimes like robbery and murder which tend to be reported consistently.
That's the difference between scholarly studies posted in things like peer review journals, and articles posted on blog sites. Variables like that are acknowledged and controlled for, otherwise it wouldn't get published.

[tlj009]

This statement would have to assume two things:

1. only illegal immigrants report crimes commited by illegal immigrants
2. they are secretly commiting crimes that never get reported

Are you saying they don't report themselves?
Or that they are only committing crimes against other illegal immigrants?

No. I was saying that the victim pool had a larger number of illegal immigrants, who don't trust the police enough to report crimes regularly. If half the victims are illegal immigrants and they don't report on crimes out of fear of being deported, then the crime rates would appear to be less than other parts of the country when in reality the rates could be similar.

If you look at the study they took reporting into account in how the study was done. They focused on crimes like robbery and murder which tend to be reported consistently.
That's the difference between scholarly studies posted in things like peer review journals, and articles posted on blog sites. Variables like that are acknowledged and controlled for, otherwise it wouldn't get published.

Scholarly studies aside, his reasoning is that robberies are committed by strangers, so they are reported more consistently. I disagree with that. As for homicides being hard to hide, I do agree.

But this is something that I find puzzling:

"The presumed link between immigration and crime has a long history in the United States and overseas. Wadsworth said such sentiments are often expressed on Internet blogs and elsewhere.

Wadsworth contends that looking at crime statistics at a single point in time can't explain the cause of crime rates.

Using such snapshots in time, Wadsworth finds that cities with larger foreign-born and new-immigrant populations do have higher rates of violent crime. But many factors -- including economic conditions -- influence crime rates.

If higher rates of immigration were boosting crime rates, one would expect long-term studies to show crime rising and falling over time with the influx and exodus of immigrants. Instead, Wadsworth found the opposite."

It appears that immigrant communities have both a lower crime rate and a higher crime rate depending on how long they have been over here. This would seem cause some problems with your statement

"So, we've now debunked the myth that illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy and resources, and we've also debunked the myth that they are causing increases in crime rates. Any others out there?