[nolidad]

This is a good point. Mormons are good people, they may make good politicians, certainly they can be good neighbors. But they are not brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well I realize and believe that even though many sects that call themselves Christian are steeped in many false doctrines. I will not name any here to keep from creating controversy, but I also know that within the Mormon Church there is the gospel message and that people can get saved. Let me be clear here- I do not approve of Moprmon Doctrine and the Book of MOrmon and Doctrines and Covenants.

I will say the same thing as Paul did in Romans__ I bear them record that they have a zeal for God but not according to right knowledge. I will leavwe it to God to decide if Beck hates the true Jesus or not.

I know that He has spoken often of the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for the atonement of our sins- and that is the message that saves souls. I know He does not even stealthily proseltizes for Mormonism, and embraces th eteachings of Rosenberg on Eschatology, and Spurgeon on teh gospel.

I know him to be an honorable man, a spiritual man, and one sho wseeks truth. Whether he is a brother in Christ stuck in a sect steeped in heresy- is for God to decide.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Ted Logan

To be fair, nolidad, Glenn Beck does hate Jesus. He loves the Mormon caricature of Jesus.

Wanted to ask this: How do you know he loves the Mormon caricature of Jesus. First off much of their caricature is right- it is only when they get into the New World and Jesus relationship to Satan that they go crazy about Jesus specifically. I know Beck has refferred to Jesus as Almighty God on his show. So their is definitely a mixed message he brings.

I would tell him to leave MOrmonism and become a Baptist (my flavor of Christianity), but until I get my chance, I just pray that what He has said on his show he believes truly- for He has given the gospel on the show.

[Ted Logan]

The question is not whether he uses the name "Almighty God" in reference to Jesus. Beck is a Mormon, and Mormonism is not Christianity.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Ted Logan

The question is not whether he uses the name "Almighty God" in reference to Jesus. Beck is a Mormon, and Mormonism is not Christianity.

Well I agree that it is at best heretical to the extreme for Christianity- but many would argue that the RCC, American Episcopalianism, as well as the Jw's are not Christian either. But the gospel is in all those sects as well and people are being saved in all those sects.

Once again I do not agree with most of Moormonism, but I do know the clear gospel is present within Mormonism and people can get saved. Just like withini th eRCC and the JW's- I have seen people get saved and some have satayed and become ineffective and mnay after their conversion left. I will not judge him as harshly as you seem to want to . If he does have a love for Jesus and is honest- he may come out of them with time and th eWord of God working in Him. I will lerave that to God and just know that he is a man of integrity and honor (within th ehuman realm) and seeks to do well for all. And is very right about many many items.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well I realize and believe that even though many sects that call themselves Christian are steeped in many false doctrines. I will not name any here to keep from creating controversy, but I also know that within the Mormon Church there is the gospel message and that people can get saved. Let me be clear here- I do not approve of Moprmon Doctrine and the Book of MOrmon and Doctrines and Covenants.

Nolidad - are you saying that those who affirm the tenets of the Church of Latter-Day Saints are following the true Gospel?

I will say the same thing as Paul did in Romans__ I bear them record that they have a zeal for God but not according to right knowledge. I will leavwe it to God to decide if Beck hates the true Jesus or not.

NOLIDAD. Are you prepared to say this about Muslims as well?

I know that He has spoken often of the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for the atonement of our sins- and that is the message that saves souls. I know He does not even stealthily proseltizes for Mormonism, and embraces th eteachings of Rosenberg on Eschatology, and Spurgeon on teh gospel.

NOLIDAD. There is more to Christianity than the death and resurrection of Christ. What you are stating here is heretical.

I know him to be an honorable man, a spiritual man, and one sho wseeks truth. Whether he is a brother in Christ stuck in a sect steeped in heresy- is for God to decide.

NOLIDAD. Mormonism is not merely a "sect steeped in heresy." They hold that Joseph Smith was given a new revelation from God that supercedes the Christian Scriptures. They hold that there are more gods than the Trinity.They are heretics from an orthodox Christian perspective.

[nolidad]

Explain how you're using those terms.

Its not about democrat/republican- it is about how american society is failing with government being a big part of the problem. It is not parties (that is political) for he has railed against both parties and people in both parties, he has repeatedly said he would vote for a democrat if he espoused the values of the constitution.

Nolidad - are you saying that those who affirm the tenets of the Church of Latter-Day Saints are following the true Gospel?

No, just like those following the tenets of the JW's, or the RCC, or the modern episcopal church, or the pentecostal church are following the true gospel. What I did say is that within all these sects of Christendom the gospel is heard and taught in its truth and people CAN be saved by placing faith in the death burial and physical resurrection of Christ as the full payment fo rtheir sin.Whether people do or not is up to God and not man. Beck from all his theological opinings on the radio and TV is either super shrewd and crafty (not his style otherwise) or is either saved or very close to the truth while still lost and being very religious. As I told TEd I will confidently affirm trhat at least Beck has a zeal for God but not according to accurate knowledge.

NOLIDAD. Are you prepared to say this about Muslims as well?

No- because teh gospel is not part of the message fo Islam

NOLIDAD. There is more to Christianity than the death and resurrection of Christ. What you are stating here is heretical.

There is tons more to Christianity than th egospel of salvation- but biblically, the only requirement for slavation is that you confess that Jesus is Lord (God) and believe inyour heart that God raised Him physically from the dead. This is all that is required to be saved, or to enter into Christianity.

Do you believe that a Catholic can be saved and remain a Catholic and worship the saints, teh host, Mary and believe that Mary is co redeemer and co mediator ?

Do you believe someone can be saved and beleive that you can live an unrepented gay lifestyle as many churches now say you can?

NOLIDAD. Mormonism is not merely a "sect steeped in heresy." They hold that Joseph Smith was given a new revelation from God that supercedes the Christian Scriptures. They hold that there are more gods than the Trinity.They are heretics from an orthodox Christian perspective.

Once again I was not defendsing Mormonism are calling them a Christian church- they are part of Christendom (which loosely defined means any sect on earth that claims to be Christian).

All I said is that the gospel message is found with in the trash of Mormonism and it is possible for one to get saved within their. Don't confuse that fact wioth an endorsement of MOrmonism.

TReh fact that Beck doesn't speak like a Mormon when he spends time in spiritual issues but sounds more like many many Christians, just gives me a pause. So please do not male a mountain of the molehill I mentioned.

[scared2mosh]

Originally Posted by nolidad

TReh fact that Beck doesn't speak like a Mormon when he spends time in spiritual issues but sounds more like many many Christians, just gives me a pause. So please do not male a mountain of the molehill I mentioned.

Sorry Man... Beck is a good guy and I like him (well at least when he is being serious without being nuts), but he is NOT a Christian. Still I'd take him over our current president who is a "Christian"

I have family that is mormon. They do NOT believe Christ saved them from their sins.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Wanted to ask this: How do you know he loves the Mormon caricature of Jesus. First off much of their caricature is right- it is only when they get into the New World and Jesus relationship to Satan that they go crazy about Jesus specifically. I know Beck has refferred to Jesus as Almighty God on his show. So their is definitely a mixed message he brings.

I would tell him to leave MOrmonism and become a Baptist (my flavor of Christianity), but until I get my chance, I just pray that what He has said on his show he believes truly- for He has given the gospel on the show.

Mormonism is not Christianity. Period. It is a polytheistic religion of works.

[Ted Logan]

nolidad, whatever your family members say, every mormon missionary I've spoken to has said they believe Jesus died for their sins. They just reinterpret each word. It's a good example of code talk.

[metropolis4]

I know I'm coming in kinda late Noli, but here's a quote for you that is interesting:

"Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a prophet, that he lived and died a prophet, and that the Book of Mormon is true is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ" -Brigham Young

"The modern Christians with the Bible in their hands are in as gross darkness as the worshipers of Baal" -Spencer's Letters

Mormon's view of Jesus is more skewed than you know. They don't believe Jesus died for the atonement of sins. There is a subtle shift there. They believe His death provides resurrection, but they don't believe His death provides salvation. Works, following the tenets of the Mormon church and believing that Joseph Smith is the prophet are all requirements for salvation.

They also believe that Mary became one of God's wives and bore Jesus as their natural offspring, and they believe that Jesus had multiple wives on Earth.

They also believe that God was once a man just like us and lived on Earth, he is actually flesh and bones like us, he has a wife, our Heavenly Mother and we are all his offspring. When we die we can attain equality with God and become god's ourselves:

"As man is, God was; as God is, man may be" -Lorenzo Snow

"The saints are to have equal knowledge with the father and the Son. The fullness of all truth in us will make us god's, equal in all things with the personages of the father and the son." -Orson Pratt, The Seer

I know you're a big fan of Beck and we all like to defend our hero's, but is that really a true gospel message? I think you're stretching...

[scared2mosh]

YouTube - Banned Mormon Cartoon

If that is an accurate description of what they believe.... then WOW. They are more messed up than I thought.

[nolidad]

That's an impossible claim to prove and as such is dubious.

Not impossible- just very time consuming. But google a few church sites- look at heir statements of faith or operations that are "liberal" churches (like Wrights or Wallis) and then start at UCC and congregational , you will get a good picture they seek govt. to redistribute wealth- to level the playing field so to speak.

But that doesn't preclude the advocacy of laws meant to effect social justice by any means. Only that we shouldn't confuse the ends of the church with the ends of the government.

This I agree totally. Unless a nation is a theocracy, the church is suppossed to be a voice of morality to the nation- not how to govern.

Not very compelling. If so Christ could've commanded us to abolish taxes. But he told us to pay.

Agreed, but not to become personally intertwined with the affairs of Ceaser. That is both the blessing and the curse for believers of livingf in a nation where you have participatroy govt. We become too enmeshed in the temporal at teh cost of the eternal.

And if the law being considered is socialist then what? It seems like you're totally picking and choosing here. If it's their business to talk about government at all then economic policy counts too.

No I am just advocating obedience to the system in place. If people amend the constitution to be come more socialist that is the right of the populace. I have a right to disagree and opposse it until they take away our right to oppose.



Metropolis wrote:

Mormon's view of Jesus is more skewed than you know. They don't believe Jesus died for the atonement of sins. There is a subtle shift there. They believe His death provides resurrection, but they don't believe His death provides salvation. Works, following the tenets of the Mormon church and believing that Joseph Smith is the prophet are all requirements for salvation.

Well metropolis, for you and Bill, let me RESTATE THIS AGAIN. I have not once endorsed the Mormon church on this thread or anywhere- I have taught apologetics and told my students Mormonism is not Christian. I no longer can get the free materials they say you can get on their commercials cause I have harrassed their missionaries with th egospel when they come to my house. I haver been marked to avoid by them. So you rintimation that I somehow am endorsing Mormonism is presumption. I have read teh Book of Mormon and also Doctrines and Covenants and several other works by Mormons, so I think you have no clue as to how skewed I know th eMOrmons are. So please deal with what I actually wrote and not what you are trying to make my words say. Please!

nolidad, whatever your family members say, every mormon missionary I've spoken to has said they believe Jesus died for their sins. They just reinterpret each word. It's a good example of code talk.

For the record, my family members think I am nuts for engaging with MOrmons and JW's-but Jesus died for their sins as well and people do get saved from those cults all the time. I will not throw away an opportunity to witness to someone who God brings to me.

I have had more confrontations with Mormons than you think I ahve and know more of their religion than some of their missionaries do.

And the fact that the gospel is in their garbage is good . Becausee when you can get them to focus on that fact- the Word of God is quick and powerful. Teh gospel message that if found within Mormonism, JW's, teh RCC, the Way international, COG, and other Christian and non Christina sects that claim to be Christian can still be used to get people saved.

This is something that I find truly amazing on this thread. I made a simple comment about Beck, because according ot MOrmon Doctrine- He could be disfellowshipped for all his endorsement of what they call the perverted Faith that came to America form the settlers. Mormons are not allowed to promote and endorse Christians as Beck has done. He loves the faith of the founders and they were Christians. All I suggested is that this gives me pause to wonder about him and him ALONE! He is such an untypical Mormon. And form this simple thought has come all these assumptions that I am somehow endorsing Mormonism. This kind of presumptiousness is an evil that saddens me deeply. Course by implying some may be presumptious on this thread may get me banished for weeks again but I think this is damaging to the debate.

If we disagree, let us disagree! Even strenously! That is fine. Sarcasm?? Lets have at it. I use sarcasm as a tool of humour with all. Even my classes and the prisoners I minister to! But to presume peoples beliefs especially after they have denied what others are implying is something that is just plain wrong.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Nolidad

And the fact that the gospel is in their garbage is good . Becausee when you can get them to focus on that fact- the Word of God is quick and powerful. Teh gospel message that if found within Mormonism, JW's, teh RCC, the Way international, COG, and other Christian and non Christina sects that claim to be Christian can still be used to get people saved.

This is crap. The mormons and Jws preach a false gospel of a false God. Period. Just because you like Glenn Beck does not change his religion.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

This is crap. The mormons and Jws preach a false gospel of a false God. Period. Just because you like Glenn Beck does not change his religion.

I wish you would read my words as I wrote them and not through you rbias against me. YOu might see my words are vastly different than what you think they say.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Metropolis wrote:


Well metropolis, for you and Bill, let me RESTATE THIS AGAIN. I have not once endorsed the Mormon church on this thread or anywhere- I have taught apologetics and told my students Mormonism is not Christian. I no longer can get the free materials they say you can get on their commercials cause I have harrassed their missionaries with th egospel when they come to my house. I haver been marked to avoid by them. So you rintimation that I somehow am endorsing Mormonism is presumption. I have read teh Book of Mormon and also Doctrines and Covenants and several other works by Mormons, so I think you have no clue as to how skewed I know th eMOrmons are. So please deal with what I actually wrote and not what you are trying to make my words say. Please!




For the record, my family members think I am nuts for engaging with MOrmons and JW's-but Jesus died for their sins as well and people do get saved from those cults all the time. I will not throw away an opportunity to witness to someone who God brings to me.

I have had more confrontations with Mormons than you think I ahve and know more of their religion than some of their missionaries do.

And the fact that the gospel is in their garbage is good . Becausee when you can get them to focus on that fact- the Word of God is quick and powerful. Teh gospel message that if found within Mormonism, JW's, teh RCC, the Way international, COG, and other Christian and non Christina sects that claim to be Christian can still be used to get people saved.

This is something that I find truly amazing on this thread. I made a simple comment about Beck, because according ot MOrmon Doctrine- He could be disfellowshipped for all his endorsement of what they call the perverted Faith that came to America form the settlers. Mormons are not allowed to promote and endorse Christians as Beck has done. He loves the faith of the founders and they were Christians. All I suggested is that this gives me pause to wonder about him and him ALONE! He is such an untypical Mormon. And form this simple thought has come all these assumptions that I am somehow endorsing Mormonism. This kind of presumptiousness is an evil that saddens me deeply. Course by implying some may be presumptious on this thread may get me banished for weeks again but I think this is damaging to the debate.

If we disagree, let us disagree! Even strenously! That is fine. Sarcasm?? Lets have at it. I use sarcasm as a tool of humour with all. Even my classes and the prisoners I minister to! But to presume peoples beliefs especially after they have denied what others are implying is something that is just plain wrong.

Whoa there Noli, easy little buddy. I really don't care how many times you've read the book of Mormon, or how many times you've witnessed to missionaries, or if you're black listed. You are accusing me of not "dealing with what you actually wrote" however, everything I wrote was dealing directly with what you wrote here.

Originally Posted by nolidad

Mormon caricature of Jesus. First off much of their caricature is right- it is only when they get into the New World and Jesus relationship to Satan that they go crazy about Jesus specifically

Originally Posted by nolidad

And the fact that the gospel is in their garbage is good

These are direct quotes from you in this thread and I responded directly to them to show you where you are wrong in your assessment of the Mormon doctrines.

Is a message where Jesus died to provide resurrection, but not to provide salvation and atonement from sins; where we still must earn our salvation from good deeds, following tenets of the church and testifying our belief in Joseph Smith as the prophet; where God is one of many god's and we may become god's ourselves on the same level as Him really what you consider a true gospel message??

The simple fact that they don't believe Jesus death provides salvation completely eliminates a gospel message from their religion, despite what the missionaries have been telling you