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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:02 PM   #16
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The wire has a clip on it that is designed to attach to the tailpiece. It's a simpler solution than the K&K body transducer which is going to require you to fiddle with positioning (I can't imagine trying to reach inside the body of an archtop) and drill a larger end pin hole (because the jack is bigger than the stock end pin).
I see. I checked out the installation guide on the fishman and it looks simple enough. My bad.

Anyway, now i need a preamp. Any suggestions on one, possibly with a tuner built in?

Thanks

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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:02 PM   #17
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I think he's looking at this one Pure Western - K&K Sound
Thats what I thought. That would require drilling for the output jack and placement will be less than optimal.

That is actually similar to the one I have in my dulcimer except mine has 3 transducers. I would go fishman if it were me for that application. If I were building the archtop, I would use K & K. Aftermarket, fishman all the way. Then I would save for a preamp pedal.

I know some guys have had success just using a dano fish and chips, which might not be a bad starting point. With piezo, you need to change the impedance and boost the signal.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:03 PM   #18
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Didn't know the auction was removed. Its a 1957 kay archtop that i got for only 230.

Anyway did you see my post about the k&k? That and a pedal preamp is looking like my best option. Would it work the setup i just posted?



Why did you hate it?
blerg... I'm a complete novice at knowing diddly squat about archtops, toss out anything I say.

you can toss this out as well - but I'll say it. I hated the setup I had because I had no control over my sound. my only ability came from either

1) bending down and fiddling with a foot preamp, looking like a tool or
2) waving like a fool to the sound guy to tweak my settings, looking like a tool.

my onboard electronics I have now give me the ability to shape my sound as I play. they give me the ability to address feedback issues while I play (my onboard microphone can play ugly with the monitors if I don't tame it). they give me the ability to control my volume output while I play. I still have the occasional step to the side to tweak some of my acoustic amp settings (for example, when switching to fingerstyle, I tweak the "attack" settings) but as it's up on a stand to my immediate right, it's easier access than bending down and playing with crap on the floor. the only thing I have on the floor is my Korg pedal tuner, which is always on anyway with a line out from the TUNER output on my acoustic amp.

my two cents, anyway.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:08 PM   #19
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Some of your points i can see being a problem for me also.

Mainly the volume thing. How do most acoustic guys do a volume boost for solos and what not? would it be worth it to buy a preamp and have a pro install it into the guitar? Im just not sure if i should risk hurting the guitar like that. Also, how much do you guys think it would cost to have someone install it on the guitar?
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:11 PM   #20
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The G natural would be my ideal. TC Electronic G-Natural gnatural TC PROAUDIOSTAR - eBay (item 300414306736 end time May-04-10 09:37:47 PDT)

Obviously, that is expensive. But it would do everything you would need.
Personally, I'd get a turbo tuner and either a preamp pedal or an eq pedal. But then, if you did it that way, we are talking over 300 for both pedals and pickup.

(160 for the fishman or thereabouts, 125 for a turbo tuner, and 30 for a fish and chips)

You could get a korg pitchblack and a dano fish and chips for about 110
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:11 PM   #21
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K&K makes an arch top pickup you can get for around $70 from Shoreline. It installs internally.

The Fishman looks nice, too. Fishman is good stuff so you can't really go wrong either way.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:15 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Chups01098 View Post
Some of your points i can see being a problem for me also.

Mainly the volume thing. How do most acoustic guys do a volume boost for solos and what not? would it be worth it to buy a preamp and have a pro install it into the guitar? Im just not sure if i should risk hurting the guitar like that. Also, how much do you guys think it would cost to have someone install it on the guitar?
Personally, I would not have a "pro" install a preamp. I can do that and such and really, on an old Kay, I'd worry about :
1) Structural integrity. Old wood can be brittle.
2) Major sonic changes. You are going to change the guitar's sound by changing the shape of the internal cavity.

I haven't seen guys use a volume boost for solos on an accoustic. Seriously, if you are worried, grab a bdab, and set it for a solo level. (I currently use mine as a preamp sometimes for piezos, but it has no tone shaping possibilities.)
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:22 PM   #23
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Speaking preamps. I'm using this one and it's doing a nice job. I run it straight to the PA. It's been quite a pleasant surprise.

Tuner? I use a hand held Korg so I'm no help there.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:28 PM   #24
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Personally, I would not have a "pro" install a preamp. I can do that and such and really, on an old Kay, I'd worry about :
1) Structural integrity. Old wood can be brittle.
2) Major sonic changes. You are going to change the guitar's sound by changing the shape of the internal cavity.

I haven't seen guys use a volume boost for solos on an accoustic. Seriously, if you are worried, grab a bdab, and set it for a solo level. (I currently use mine as a preamp sometimes for piezos, but it has no tone shaping possibilities.)
The G-Natural looks mighty fine but is too freaking expensive!

Yeah i dont want to install the preamp into the guitar for those two reasons.

So im thinkin pickup for 160, a preamp for 140 ( this one Fishman PLT101 Platinum GuitarBass Preamp | Sam Ash Music 1-800-4-SAMASH) i can just use my clip on tuner for a while, and wanna sell me a bdab?
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Unread 04-19-2010, 12:49 PM   #25
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Speaking preamps. I'm using this one and it's doing a nice job. I run it straight to the PA. It's been quite a pleasant surprise.

Tuner? I use a hand held Korg so I'm no help there.
Something like that Behringer model (or the SansAmp they copied) would be my recommendation for this application.

I wouldn't spend money to install an onboard preamp on a 53 year old guitar. Not only because of the possible loss of structural integrity, but also because I just have trouble justifying an outpouring of that much money into a budget level instrument. The reality is that 50 years ago Kay was a budget brand, and compared to what's on the market today should probably not be considered any differently.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 01:00 PM   #26
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Something like that Behringer model (or the SansAmp they copied) would be my recommendation for this application.
Yeah, I am looking at the BBE myself The sansamp might be a viable option for me. The TC is a great all in one system but a touch too pricey.

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I wouldn't spend money to install an onboard preamp on a 53 year old guitar. Not only because of the possible loss of structural integrity, but also because I just have trouble justifying an outpouring of that much money into a budget level instrument. The reality is that 50 years ago Kay was a budget brand, and compared to what's on the market today should probably not be considered any differently.
Agreed. Kays also tend to be a wee touch fragile in my experience. Just my experience, but I have seen em a bit beat up. Though, isn't that emblem one of the more favored styles of Kay's? If you decide to stay archtop, if you upgrade instruments in the future, you can reuse the fishman system and reinstall the original bridge.

The other advantage of an external preamp is with multiple instruments. I can use it with another guitar, a dulcimer, a mandolin, etc.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 01:09 PM   #27
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I have a question about the guitar itself though. I know kay was budget guitars back then but on the listing it says all mahogany and stuff. Most cheap acoustics today aren't like that are they?

ok so i think i'll get the fishman, some form of preamp pedal (not installed in guitar) a tuner and a boost.

Does anyone want to sell me a BDAB? I dont really wanna buy new. BSPE, did i read somewhere you had like 4? Want to sell one?
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Unread 04-19-2010, 01:16 PM   #28
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I have a question about the guitar itself though. I know kay was budget guitars back then but on the listing it says all mahogany and stuff. Most cheap acoustics today aren't like that are they?

ok so i think i'll get the fishman, some form of preamp pedal (not installed in guitar) a tuner and a boost.

Does anyone want to sell me a BDAB? I dont really wanna buy new. BSPE, did i read somewhere you had like 4? Want to sell one?
2 run in parallel in a custom a/b/y pedal at the end of my chain. (my frenzel has two separate preamps) Togethr that essentially gives me a four channel amp. Not bad for an amp that has no internal switching.

1 is in the trinity near the beginning of the chain. I have a single which I loaned to a friend, (its a loaner for the most part and a sorta similar pdal I am using as a treble booster. Sorry, I actually use them all for different things.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 01:34 PM   #29
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I have a question about the guitar itself though. I know kay was budget guitars back then but on the listing it says all mahogany and stuff. Most cheap acoustics today aren't like that are they?
They aren't, but the modern acoustics are using decent quality laminates. Just because something is solid wood doesn't necessarily make it good.
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Unread 04-19-2010, 02:30 PM   #30
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ok. And im not expecting it to be just a killer guitar. I mean it only cost me $230 haha
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