[redbaron]

Jerry I think you're confusing what Paul actually said with what the RCC teaches. He said that it's better to be married than to burn with passion- i.e. if you can't reign in carnal desires you should be married so you can express that in a relationship that would be pleasing to God. Some people are given a gift of not having those desires, and they should remain as such, is all he's saying. The RCC decided that if you want to do ministry you have to be celibate no matter what, even if that's not their gifting.

If you go back to the middle ages, the real reason that the RCC went to the celibate & unmarried preisthood was to reduce some of the political maneuvering in the ranks, and to consolidate papal power, and reduce any kind of nepotism/heirs. I'd have to look it up, but historically some of the popes had wives and concubines and numerous children. haha

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by slap_j

I'm saying they could relieve pent up sexual energy through onanism (you're a former Catholic so you should get that one) rather than homosexual relations. But they chose the latter anyway. So, maybe their sexuality didn't actually change. Maybe there was a small latent desire to sleep with men and it didn't become socially acceptable til they were in the prison culture. This would make sense to me as I believe sexuality is more of a continuum rather than a hard binary.

Well many have- but as you should know that sexual sin in many leads to greater and further sexual sin.

Many priests stopped at masturbation.
Many went on to illicit affairs with women
Many went on to homosexual relations
Many went on to pedophilia.

To blanket say that celibacy doesn't cause these to happen is naive at best- woefully ignorant at worst.

Teh whys are many and varied as the individuals who went on these paths.

Would some have done teh same if they were not under vows of celibacy??? I am sure! Would the numbers have been much smaller? Without any doubt in my mind.

Being in a monogamous relationship with sexual activity surrounded in love for another does much to erase the urges to go down the path of sexual sin.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well many have-but as you should know that sexual sin in many leads to greater and further sexual sin.

Many priests stopped at masturbation.
Many went on to illicit affairs with women
Many went on to homosexual relations
Many went on to pedophilia.

You don't "go on" from masturbation (or any of those things) to pedophilia. Pedophilia is a psychological disorder (according to the DSM as well as the ICD). Lust toward consenting adults, whether it be fantasy or reality, is not.

To blanket say that celibacy doesn't cause these to happen is naive at best- woefully ignorant at worst.

The psychological pressure of trying to maintain celibacy might be a contributing factor, but celibacy itself cannot be. Indeed, if you're celibate you're not having sex, period. And prisoners cannot be directly compared to priests. They're under an involuntary celibacy which they often violate at any opportunity. Priests freely adopt the celibate lifestyle. No one is using force to prevent them from opting out at any moment. And when they do actually have sex, unless it's an isolated incident, they've already opted out.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by redbaron

Jerry I think you're confusing what Paul actually said with what the RCC teaches. He said that it's better to be married than to burn with passion- i.e. if you can't reign in carnal desires you should be married so you can express that in a relationship that would be pleasing to God. Some people are given a gift of not having those desires, and they should remain as such, is all he's saying. The RCC decided that if you want to do ministry you have to be celibate no matter what, even if that's not their gifting.

That's primarily a discussion for a different thread, as I already mentioned.

One is not required to become a priest. If you burn with passion, don't become a priest (or leave the priesthood).

If you go back to the middle ages, the real reason that the RCC went to the celibate & unmarried preisthood was to reduce some of the political maneuvering in the ranks, and to consolidate papal power, and reduce any kind of nepotism/heirs. I'd have to look it up, but historically some of the popes had wives and concubines and numerous children. haha

The reason and the justification are rarely the same. When I go back, I can see the political reasons for the BIble contining what it contains in the first place (such as Satan being added by the introduction of Zoroastrian dualism and the hatred for the Babylonians and their symbol, the snake).

[Rainer.]

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