[nolidad]

Just another thought slap J-- tea party videos have caught the questionable signs and crude signs made by others- they have not been accussed of hiding the bad- butr now they are hiding somethig???

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

It is just convenient that they can specifically remember that teh n word was used 15 times

Who exactly is it convenient for? Convenient is a drive-thru restaurant. Not being made out to be liars by a strong populist movement.

either none of these possibly several huyndred over the course of their walk through th ecrtowd didn't hear one of 15 times the n word was shouted or they are all racists?? Is that what you really are trying to say??

No, I wouldn't come to a conclusion that is so harebrained—that either they're all innocent or all racists. I believe my conclusion was stated quite plainly: I don't know what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

$ reps who don't like the tea partiers- in the middle of a well videoed event accuse people that no one else heard and a doiferent incident (days after th evideoed one was circulated) where noone was around?? Do you really think that is reasonable and credible???

All we know is that this particular video wasn't even the right one and that no one else has reported anything. You're the one filling in the gaps in the face of a lack of evidence.

Originally Posted by nolidad

Just another thought slap J-- tea party videos have caught the questionable signs and crude signs made by others- they have not been accussed of hiding the bad- butr now they are hiding somethig???

I'm not accusing them of hiding anything. Most of them are likely decent people.

[nolidad]

All we know is that this particular video wasn't even the right one and that no one else has reported anything. You're the one filling in the gaps in the face of a lack of evidence.

Who says this isn't the right one? So there were 2 spitting incidents then?

I don't know what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Why would you not be surprised? Tehre hasn't been any evidence that racism has actually occurred at any tea party rallies. Blacks are well received as key note speakers, so why do you even think that at a tea party rally people would spit on black politicians and use the N word 15 times?

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Who says this isn't the right one?

John Lewis and Andre Carson say the video that has been widely circulated was shot an hour after the alleged incident. This was in the article we talked about yesterday.

Why would you not be surprised?

As I already said, because people say/do stupid things when they're riled up. There's nothing about associating yourself with the Tea Party that means you're a paragon of virtue.

[nolidad]

As I already said, because people say/do stupid things when they're riled up. There's nothing about associating yourself with the Tea Party that means you're a paragon of virtue.

Agreed absolutely.

John Lewis and Andre Carson say the video that has been widely circulated was shot an hour after the alleged incident. This was in the article we talked about yesterday.

Well the problem with this testimony is that they said this occurred when they went from the house to their office building- which is not an hour long walk. So they wqopuld have had to have been spit on while they were i th ehouse building. They did not say they were strolling around th etea partiers fro over an hour. Their earlier statement said it happened when they went from building A to building B. It doen't jibe.

[nolidad]

People need to remember that these folks are for the vast majority- middle to upper class folks, and more educaterd than teh average person.

Tehy are from their 30's through senior years (though there are younger partiers)

There are more women than men at most parties

The majority of these folks are "protesting" for the first time in their lives.

The rallies are generally peaceful and the only arrests that have occured are for misdeanors like carrying their sign s in picketing on streets.

They leave their rallies almost as clean as when they arrived

Calls to local police depts. where rallies have occurred bear all this out. These aresome of the most docile protests carried on .

The fact that at an Atlanta party a black DJ was encouraged by a crowd of almost 20,000 (mostly white) to run for president is noteworthy about the attitutde towards rqace.

With numbers in teh millions now, is it possible for racists to get in ?? Absolutely! But like at the Boston PArty this past week, a guy hoisted a racist sign and was surrounded by 6-8 others with their signs until he left . (Howie Carr Show Thursday 4/15)

The fact that every rally is very well documented by A/V eqpmt makes it very unlikely that these charges of spitting and name calling are very valid.

The N word shouted once- maybe even twice? Possible before people got top them and acted upon their wrongness. But 15 times? From all the reports I have gotten from friends in teh parties- I can't buy it in the least. But once again, call local police depts where rallies were held and you will hear first hand how peaceful , non threatening and non violent and non rude th eparties are.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

People need to remember that these folks are for the vast majority- middle to upper class folks, and more educaterd than teh average person.

The vast majority of them -- 89 percent -- are white. Just one percent is black.

Three in four are 45 years old or older, including 29 percent who are 65 plus.

More than half (54 percent) identify as Republicans, and another 41 percent say they are independents.

Nearly three in four describe themselves as conservative, and 39 percent call themselves very conservative. Sixty percent say they always or usually vote Republican.

More than three in four Tea Party supporters (78 percent) have never attended a rally or donated to a group; most have also not visited a Tea Party Web site.

Fifty-three percent of Tea Party supporters describe themselves as "angry" about the way things are going in Washington, compared to 19 percent of Americans overall who say they are angry.

Asked to volunteer what they don't like about Mr. Obama, the top answer, offered by 19 percent of Tea Party supporters, was that they just don't like him.

Sixty-four percent believe that the president has increased taxes for most Americans, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans got a tax cut under the Obama administration.

Sixty-three percent say they get the majority of their political and current events news on television from the Fox News Channel

An overwhelming majority of Tea Party supporters, 84 percent, say the views of the Tea Party movement reflect the views of most Americans. But Americans overall disagree: Just 25 percent say the Tea Party movement reflects their beliefs, while 36 percent say it does not.

Thirty percent of Tea Party supporters believe Mr. Obama was born in another country, despite ample evidence to the contrary. Another 29 percent say they don't know.

[nolidad]

The vast majority of them -- 89 percent -- are white. Just one percent is black.

Not surprising considering Obama got 95% of the black vote. You would expect this to have few blacks. Just like I don't ewxpect to see many whites ata NAACP conference.

Three in four are 45 years old or older, including 29 percent who are 65 plus.

I know them grannies are such radical exremists!

More than half (54 percent) identify as Republicans, and another 41 percent say they are independents.

And the latest polls put 48% of America identifying with the principles of the tea party while Obama has only a 44% rating. Which is why the dems are very nervous.

More than three in four Tea Party supporters (78 percent) have never attended a rally or donated to a group; most have also not visited a Tea Party Web site.

Just goes to prove the grass roots of this. The tea party principlesare very identified with in society. Heck most people who have gone to rallies say they its their first time they ever did so.

Fifty-three percent of Tea Party supporters describe themselves as "angry" about the way things are going in Washington, compared to 19 percent of Americans overall who say they are angry.

This is a deceptive number that focuses on anger only. Polls show teh majority of Americans disapprove of the direction America is going in under Obama. And you would expect tea partiers to have higher "anger" numbers. Tehy are the ones who disapprove enough to do something to try to change course.

Asked to volunteer what they don't like about Mr. Obama, the top answer, offered by 19 percent of Tea Party supporters, was that they just don't like him.

CITE? I would like to see how th equestion was phrased. We all know many polls can be skewed by how th ewords are put.-- But that means that 81% have specific complaints about him.

I wonder how many liberals polled would have siad the same about Bush?

An overwhelming majority of Tea Party supporters, 84 percent, say the views of the Tea Party movement reflect the views of most Americans. But Americans overall disagree: Just 25 percent say the Tea Party movement reflects their beliefs, while 36 percent say it does not.

Well teh latest fox/gallup put it at 48% which was not a majority but a plurality of Americans so this is an old survey.

Sixty-three percent say they get the majority of their political and current events news on television from the Fox News Channel

AND??? Poll liberal activists-- I am willing to bet that even higher numbers of liberals get their political and current events from the liberal media CNN>CBS>ABC>NBC>MSNBC. Are you trying to imply its a crime for conservatives to watch news from a conservative channel??

Do you agree it is just as wrong for liberals to watch news from liberal channels?

Thirty percent of Tea Party supporters believe Mr. Obama was born in another country, despite ample evidence to the contrary. Another 29 percent say they don't know.

Your point being?? Tehree is one line of evidence that never was brought up-- He went to indonesian schools when he lived there. at that time, Indonesia did not allow non citizens to attend schools, and they did not allow dual citizenship. So techinically Obamas American citizenship was renounced in order for him to go to school. That would make him now a naturalized citizen of the US and thus ineligible to be president unless th elaw allows full reintegration of native citizenship if one returns to teh states. I do ot know the answer to that.

But it is a non starter anyway- He is president and even if it were discovered to be true- I don't believe SCOTUS would pull him out of office.

[nolidad]

LOL "snuck".

*edit* I saw my google typo. I reran a search with the correct "party" and did find a black tea-partier... under a blog titled "is the tea party racist". The rest looked like the ones I linked. Lots of people, all white (and mostly old: which is odd, because they have socialized healthcare (medicare)).

Doesn't have a trhing to do with teh 100K reward you answered this too but hey what eh ehck.. I want to provve it true- I could use $100,000

But again all this has done nothing to substantiate the charges that teh tea party movemetn is extremist, radical, violent, racist, homophobic, moronic (thats a laugher consdidering they are more educated than the general population) and other than the word of four people with no A/V evidence at an event where everything BUT these alleged events was videoed, there is no evidence. To the contrary black tea partiers interviewed feel at home at the rallies, police have made no arrests fro any violence anywhere (excepot for when SEIU thugs got arrested fro assaulting tea partiers), and the police reports all say that tea party rallies are peaceful and behaved if somewhat loud at tiemes.

Clintons assertion that the tea party is helpoing to create an atmosphere that produced McVeigh is lying at its basest form.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Not surprising considering Obama got 95% of the black vote. You would expect this to have few blacks. Just like I don't ewxpect to see many whites ata NAACP conference.

And yet it is a fact you have been arguing against for quite some time now.

I know them grannies are such radical exremists!

I do know that grannies already have government healthcare, and won't have to deal with the state of the world 50 years from now.

And the latest polls put 48% of America identifying with the principles of the tea party while Obama has only a 44% rating. Which is why the dems are very nervous.

That's actually useless. Depending on how I frame the question: I could get an actual majority to agree with the principles of basically any party or group. A useful statistic would need far more detailed information there.

Just goes to prove the grass roots of this. The tea party principlesare very identified with in society. Heck most people who have gone to rallies say they its their first time they ever did so.

What is your logic, that someone (a large percentage in fact) who has never so much as visited the website says they are a tea-party-member means that it is grass roots? That would seem more to me "they saw it on FOX".

This is a deceptive number that focuses on anger only. Polls show teh majority of Americans disapprove of the direction America is going in under Obama. And you would expect tea partiers to have higher "anger" numbers. Tehy are the ones who disapprove enough to do something to try to change course.

The "majority" managed that only last month, and larger majorities dislike the republicans in congress (notice that the tea-party votes republican)

CITE? I would like to see how th equestion was phrased. We all know many polls can be skewed by how th ewords are put.-- But that means that 81% have specific complaints about him.

It is the exact same survey you got your tea-party numbers from. You only looked at part of it.

I wonder how many liberals polled would have siad the same about Bush?

No idea. If you like the liberals, than saying you poll similarly would be a defense. That would be a serious about-face on your anti-liberal rhetoric.

Well teh latest fox/gallup put it at 48% which was not a majority but a plurality of Americans so this is an old survey.

As I said: it is the same survey from which you drew your original numbers... and the poll is from this year.

AND??? Poll liberal activists-- I am willing to bet that even higher numbers of liberals get their political and current events from the liberal media CNN>CBS>ABC>NBC>MSNBC. Are you trying to imply its a crime for conservatives to watch news from a conservative channel??

As before: if you wish to say "we are just like the liberals", go ahead. I was of the understanding that you though liberals were misinformed.

Do you agree it is just as wrong for liberals to watch news from liberal channels?

I agree that liberals are not the topic, and that the question is a straw man.

Your point being??

That Obama's American birth is well established fact. Anyone in the US doubting it at this point is showing a serious lack of judgement or extreme ignorance.

Tehree is one line of evidence that never was brought up-- He went to indonesian schools when he lived there. at that time, Indonesia did not allow non citizens to attend schools, and they did not allow dual citizenship. So techinically Obamas American citizenship was renounced in order for him to go to school. That would make him now a naturalized citizen of the US and thus ineligible to be president unless th elaw allows full reintegration of native citizenship if one returns to teh states. I do ot know the answer to that.

That's not what the survey asked, nor is it what the respondants said. This is not a thread about Obama: this is a thread about the tea party.

But it is a non starter anyway- He is president and even if it were discovered to be true- I don't believe SCOTUS would pull him out of office.

That's a statement about Obama again. This is not about Obama. This is about the tea-party: populated with people so out of touch with the reality of the situation that even such an established fact as Obama's location of birth they have failed (1/3rd of them) to accept.

[nolidad]

And yet it is a fact you have been arguing against for quite some time now.

you have the wrong nolidad. I never argued that the tea party was loaded with blacks- I just know they are not excluded, and that there are blacks inteh party.

I do know that grannies already have government healthcare, and won't have to deal with the state of the world 50 years from now

.

So are you saing they don't have any interest in this?

That's actually useless. Depending on how I frame the question: I could get an actual majority to agree with the principles of basically any party or group. A useful statistic would need far more detailed information there.

Unless you actually no th equestion you don't no how irrelevant it is.

What is your logic, that someone (a large percentage in fact) who has never so much as visited the website says they are a tea-party-member means that it is grass roots? That would seem more to me "they saw it on FOX".

Well get in touch with various tea partiers from varied locations- it won't matter to you but you will get an education.

The "majority" managed that only last month, and larger majorities dislike the republicans in congress (notice that the tea-party votes republican)

Well as teh tea party is not a "republican" wing means this matters not because the same polls show that people hate the dems in Congress more than the GOP. Pelosi has an 11% rating and REid an 8% rating. Bush was a beloved ICON in comparison and he left with a 35% rating

It is the exact same survey you got your tea-party numbers from. You only looked at part of it.

Are you trying to read my mojnd again and failing?? I didn't post my survey so how do you know?????

AND??? Poll liberal activists-- I am willing to bet that even higher numbers of liberals get their political and current events from the liberal media CNN>CBS>ABC>NBC>MSNBC. Are you trying to imply its a crime for conservatives to watch news from a conservative channel??

As before: if you wish to say "we are just like the liberals", go ahead. I was of the understanding that you though liberals were misinformed.

Well given you rtrack record of thinking Fox is a foolish station I know your answer was designed to put a subtle insult over the fact that many of these folks watch FOX amkming them somehow inferior.

Most liberals are misinformed but that is besides th epoint!

That Obama's American birth is well established fact. Anyone in the US doubting it at this point is showing a serious lack of judgement or extreme ignorance

.

Then he enjoys keeping the mystery going. He has released a copy of his record of live birth- but not his birth certificate. He refuses to release his college transcripts. His mystery by this is what keeps fueling th efire. And remember this was all started by a democratic party player.

That's not what the survey asked, nor is it what the respondants said. This is not a thread about Obama: this is a thread about the tea party.

Well post it and let us see what the survey asks.

That's a statement about Obama again. This is not about Obama. This is about the tea-party: populated with people so out of touch with the reality of the situation that even such an established fact as Obama's location of birth they have failed (1/3rd of them) to accept

.

And you rpoint?

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

you have the wrong nolidad. I never argued that the tea party was loaded with blacks- I just know they are not excluded, and that there are blacks inteh party.

You also kept inferring that they were numerous. Recall your argument that the n-word had never been uttered at a tea-party event by saying "Blacks in teh tea party have never heard the N word uttered by tea partiers". 99-of-100 people who associate with the tea party are not black. You might as well have said "no red-haired biologists named Steve" had heard it.

So are you saing they don't have any interest in this?

Of course they have in interest... in keeping their own government healthcare while denying it to those of us who actually pay the bill. They also have a lot of time to listen to Beck, and don't have to worry about the job market or UHC.

Unless you actually no th equestion you don't no how irrelevant it is.

That's exactly my point. "I asked a question and 98% of people said 'yes'".

Did I just win the argument? You don't know how irrelevant my question was: therefore it proves me right?

Of course not. An unknown value is not useful. My "yes" above is an unknown value (you don't know the question or the methodology). Your earlier cite is the same.

Well get in touch with various tea partiers from varied locations- it won't matter to you but you will get an education.

Why? I've got one right here. An old, white, ill-informed, beck-o-phile. You, noli, form my impression of the tea-party: and it's not good.

Well as teh tea party is not a "republican" wing means this matters not because the same polls show that people hate the dems in Congress more than the GOP. Pelosi has an 11% rating and REid an 8% rating. Bush was a beloved ICON in comparison and he left with a 35% rating

60% say they "always or usually" vote republican. That sounds republican to me. Did Palin leave the party when I wasn't looking?

Are you trying to read my mojnd again and failing?? I didn't post my survey so how do you know?????

because I know which survey asked every question you cited and gave the exact answers you gave.

Well given you rtrack record of thinking Fox is a foolish station I know your answer was designed to put a subtle insult over the fact that many of these folks watch FOX amkming them somehow inferior.

I was acutally going for "not grass roots"

Most liberals are misinformed but that is besides th epoint!

And you are comparing the tea party to them.

Then he enjoys keeping the mystery going. He has released a copy of his record of live birth- but not his birth certificate. He refuses to release his college transcripts. His mystery by this is what keeps fueling th efire. And remember this was all started by a democratic party player.

So I should add you to the pile of people rejecting proven reality (you are a birther), or you agree that his birth is well established (meaning you agree that 1/3 of the tea party has not accepted easily available and proven fact)

Well post it and let us see what the survey asks.

This is not a thread about Obama. This is a thread about the tea party.

And you rpoint?

two points.
1) this is not a thread about Obama, this is a thread about the tea party.
2) with the percentage that don't believe Obama was born in the US (1/3rd), we can establish that at least 1/3 of the movement is so out of touch with reality that they have not accepted simple, accessable, well verified fact.

[nolidad]

You also kept inferring that they were numerous. Recall your argument that the n-word had never been uttered at a tea-party event by saying "Blacks in teh tea party have never heard the N word uttered by tea partiers". 99-of-100 people who associate with the tea party are not black. You might as well have said "no red-haired biologists named Steve" had heard it.

Well about 20,000 people is kind of numerous. Course they prpobably don't count tpo you being uncle Toms and all.

Of course they have in interest... in keeping their own government healthcare while denying it to those of us who actually pay the bill. They also have a lot of time to listen to Beck, and don't have to worry about the job market or UHC.

Are you practicing the vulcan mind meld again and trying to read peoples minds?????

Why? I've got one right here. An old, white, ill-informed, beck-o-phile. You, noli, form my impression of the tea-party: and it's not good.

See this response just proves what many know of you- you really do not pay attention to peoples answers. I am not a tea partier- nor have I ever been one.

I was acutally going for "not grass roots"

And you know this how??? Where is their central office??? Where are their national bosses?? Where is their national funding??? What is their national rules??? What dues???

No you just hate tehm because they areally are grass roots and do tings by word of mouth, twitter, facebook, telephone aand what have you.



I find it interesting that no violence (other than when SEIU and ACORN goons start throwing punches) go on at tea parties, no riot police show up, no bottles are thrown, no vandalism occurs and people who show up and disagree are allowed tro freely disagree and debate (yes sometime very loudly), but they are like their names--Party atmospheres. Singing, kids on bikes, babies in strollers, coffee runs, laughing joking, singing the national anthem, pledgeof allegiance--but no riots. But let the gov. of Arizona sign a law saying they will enforce federal law and from teh left we get this:

Furor grows over Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigrants; legal challenges are expected | StarTribune.com

Sharpton vows to protest Arizona immigration bill - Yahoo! News

Arizona immigration bill protesters arrested

So it would seem teh left is far more viol;ent and raising tensions than the grannies and middle agers and soccer moms at teh tea parties.

And you are comparing the tea party to them.

Too bad you and I couldn't spend a month questioning the "more educated" tea partiers on thiings like the constitution and present govt. and then go find left wing protests and ask teh same questions- we both know the tea party groups win everytime.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well about 20,000 people is kind of numerous. Course they prpobably don't count tpo you being uncle Toms and all.

That's just racially prjudiced. You've sunk to a new low.

Are you practicing the vulcan mind meld again and trying to read peoples minds?????

Your backup defense when you have nothing substantial

See this response just proves what many know of you- you really do not pay attention to peoples answers. I am not a tea partier- nor have I ever been one.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

And you know this how??? Where is their central office??? Where are their national bosses?? Where is their national funding??? What is their national rules??? What dues???

Their national bosses would be wherever Beck lives.

As to the rest: I suppose you believe the DNC and GOP are grass roots. After all, there are no dues.

No you just hate tehm because they areally are grass roots and do tings by word of mouth, twitter, facebook, telephone aand what have you.

What was that about mind-reading? You are a hypocrite for using it as an insulting distraction while simultaniously using ad hominims like this.

Everyone does things by word of mouth, twitter, facebook, and telephone (BTW, you forgot to mention FOX "news"); and I don't hate any living people.

I find it interesting that no violence (other than when SEIU and ACORN goons start throwing punches) go on at tea parties, no riot police show up, no bottles are thrown, no vandalism occurs and people who show up and disagree are allowed tro freely disagree and debate (yes sometime very loudly), but they are like their names--Party atmospheres. Singing, kids on bikes, babies in strollers, coffee runs, laughing joking, singing the national anthem, pledgeof allegiance--

Putting death threats on signs, wearing easily stealable firearms while tying up their hands and distracting themselves. etc.

And shame on you again for trying to change the thread. There's already one on Arazona's new law.

Too bad you and I couldn't spend a month questioning the "more eduucated" tea partiers on thiings like the constitution and present govt. and then go find left wing protests and ask teh same questions- we both know the tea party groups win everytime.

You've moved from mind reader to psychic.

But we do have some statistics on that for questions like "Was Obama born in the US" or "Have average-American taxes gone up or down", or "what percentage of America supports the tea party". The rate at which they fail these questions is staggering. You are living proof.

Some other interesting ones would be "what is socialism", "what is facism", "Is medicare government healthcare", "does Hawaii have state-mandated healthcare", etc.

[adamwagg]

And with that I think we are done.