[nolidad]

Most have by now have heard about teh angry calls and threats against some politicians over the recent health care law.

I am glad that both sides have come outr and condemned the violence. Even the conservative radio and TV commentators have roundly condemned the violence (Beck did an excellent job in warning against any violence).

What is disturbing is that some on the left are trying to politicize these acts to try to turn people against conservatives and the GOP and paint a very negative picture.


The tea party movement has yet to have any arrests yet for violence or threats or vandalism.

Verbal anger in protesting is part and parcel of the American way of politics. Taking it past verbal has always been condemned byt he vast majority of folks (SDS, STORM
Thiese threats and violent acts are being committed against Dem. and GOP politicians and should be condemned as violent acts done by unstable people.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

The tea party movement has yet to have any arrests yet for violence or threats or vandalism.

TEA-PARTY LOON CHARLES DYER ARRESTED ON CHILD RAPE CHARGES - VBS STAFF | VBS.TV Blog

But I suspect you meant "during an event". What do you think this sign means?


Of course, I could show you a dozen people like Mike Vanderboegh, an avowed Tea Partier, advocating murder and violence and you would just say "he doesn't count, not a real tea-party person".

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

TEA-PARTY LOON CHARLES DYER ARRESTED ON CHILD RAPE CHARGES - VBS STAFF | VBS.TV Blog

But I suspect you meant "during an event". What do you think this sign means?


Of course, I could show you a dozen people like Mike Vanderboegh, an avowed Tea Partier, advocating murder and violence and you would just say "he doesn't count, not a real tea-party person".

Well seeing how you are so superior and now feel you must do my thinking for me, I guess we can just leave Mike Vanderboegh alone as you have instructed me on what I am thinking now.

But maybe I will just ask yo to prove it- Vanderboegh condemend Mother JOnes for calling him a teas partier saying they lied. I could not find one real article that put him as a member of the tea party.

Are you really trying to equate this guys sexual perversion to his being part of the tea party movement?? I didn't think you were that zombieized by Maher, Behar and the others of the loon left.

But then I guess we should equate being an ardent Obama supporter as being repsonsible for Professor Amy Bishop shooting three of her other liberal colleagues.

But please show me one arrest for tea partiers doing criminal activity like the liberals did at teh G-20 meeting in Pa when they burned SUV's and Hummers and caused tenso fthousands in damages and had to be quelled by riot police.

As for your picture of a sign, yeah there are a few at avery big tea party event. They are few and far in between, but of course the left wing media shows those the most. (Even Beck shows those signs and tells tea partiers to get those peoples signs down)but let us review some liberral things:

Writing a movie about teh assassination of Bush.
Burning Busha dn Cheney in effigy
Hanging Bush in Effigy
Kerry equating our troops to Nazis
Having signs in their demonstrations picturing Bush adn Cheney as Hitler and Goering.
Pelosi calling Bush a failure on national television
REid mocking Bush on national television.
Liberals calling tea partiers terrorists (really!!)

Pelosi cries on national television about more and more Americans just venting their anger (non violently) witht he same kind of signs and rhetoric her friends on the left have used for decades. where were her tears when the left marched against Bush with him in a noose??

See Jerry, your problem is that you have no problem with the left doing it. But when the avge citizens get tired of the govt. growing too big and do the same thing the left has doen- you pitch a fit.,

Well Jerry show when tea parties got violent like left rallies have done (the G-20 for instance). Show when tea partioers were arrested for "tea party" activity and not being a pervert (I can bring the same thing with dozens of uber-liberals as well and you know that this a a red herring).

Here are just a few pictures of your "pacifist" left friends:

Media Didn't Care About Protest Signs Threatening Bush | NewsBusters.org

The Gallery of 'Bush = Hitler' Allusions

Bush Assassination Movie Wins Award at Toronto Film Festival | NewsBusters.org

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

What is disturbing is that some on the left are trying to politicize these acts to try to turn people against conservatives and the GOP and paint a very negative picture.

Links?

[nolidad]

Lest I forget: let us remember that we are simply doing what teh grand lady of the left said is a very patriotic thing:

I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration.
Hillary Rodham Clinton -

Links?

Video: House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer blames Sarah Palin for recent threats of violence

Democrats Target of Violent Incidents, Threats | Black America Web

What has not been reported on widely is that Eric Cantor (R) had a shot fired through his window, nor was it reported on teh death threats Rep. Stupak received from teh left when he was oppossed to the health bill.

I fully recognize that when the left or right are against particular bills or candidates- the extremes from those sides will use it to their own advantage and agendas. The Gop and the Tea Part Movement and Beck have all soundly and explicitly condemned any violence.

Jerry Love cited a guy , Mike Vanderboegh, as an ardent tea partier when he himself denounced that. He was a extremist militia guy (far right libertarian/anarchist), and from what I could gather from the web- he was simply using the tea party to promote his own agenda.

These threats are deplorable, but they haver unfortunately are becoming too much th e way many on both sides are doing politics in an ever increasing polarized America. I thinkwe are seeing America becoming more divided than during the civil war times. Back then it was over states rights and slavery, now it is over the size of fed govt., states rights and individual liberty.

[Napoleon17]

We are not even close to being as divided as America was in civil war times. Most people are mildly interested at best, completely apathetic at worst. The 10% who really, really care are at each other's throats, but I don't think that is an accurate depiction of 90% of Americans today. Back in civil war times those issues tore family's apart. So the comparison is off-base, I think.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Video: House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer blames Sarah Palin for recent threats of violence

That title is a bit hyperbolic. He didn't say Palin was responsible for the violence. He said her rhetoric was over the line. I don't disagree. I can't help but roll my eyes when I hear comparisons to Mao or Stalin but I know some people are ignorant enough to take it seriously.

I thinkwe are seeing America becoming more divided than during the civil war times. Back then it was over states rights and slavery, now it is over the size of fed govt., states rights and individual liberty.

Likely an artifact produced by sensationalist news.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Most have by now have heard about teh angry calls and threats against some politicians over the recent health care law.

I am glad that both sides have come outr and condemned the violence. Even the conservative radio and TV commentators have roundly condemned the violence (Beck did an excellent job in warning against any violence).

What is disturbing is that some on the left are trying to politicize these acts to try to turn people against conservatives and the GOP and paint a very negative picture.


The tea party movement has yet to have any arrests yet for violence or threats or vandalism.

Verbal anger in protesting is part and parcel of the American way of politics. Taking it past verbal has always been condemned byt he vast majority of folks (SDS, STORM
Thiese threats and violent acts are being committed against Dem. and GOP politicians and should be condemned as violent acts done by unstable people.

You answered your own question

Oh Nolidad, you started out so well here, why did it have to dissolve so quickly into partisan "he said - she said" playground antics?

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Napoleon17

We are not even close to being as divided as America was in civil war times. Most people are mildly interested at best, completely apathetic at worst. The 10% who really, really care are at each other's throats, but I don't think that is an accurate depiction of 90% of Americans today. Back in civil war times those issues tore family's apart. So the comparison is off-base, I think.

Maybe from the left there is a lot of indifference, but tea party attendance is in the millions across the country and the bulk of that is over the health care law. Teh level of violence is enormously smaller than back then- but moderate to conservatives are up in arms over this usurpation of power by the fed.

Even the DNC realizes that because this was a one party passage- they will most likely lose control of the house and Senate this NOV. Some polls even predict up to a turn of over 80 seats to the GOP.

Culturally America is being torn apart. Whethter one approves or disapproves- gay rights, larger govt. secularization, UHC, ampongst many other issues are dividing America.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

You answered your own question

Oh Nolidad, you started out so well here, why did it have to dissolve so quickly into partisan "he said - she said" playground antics?

I guess I just listen to too much news form Fox and CNN.

Teh simple factr is there is a code inteh house that teh reps usually have followed. Verbal threats are not publicized. Every rep. on both sides of the aisle have recieved threats. Michellee Backman released a tape showing a vastly more intimidating threat she received over the health care debater than all teh others did.

It is the fact that some on the left (not all, but the rabble rousers I will call them) have opted to use the threats ALL reps receive on a regular basis over many issues and go public with them over teh house rules of decorum or whatever they are called that is galling.

Teh atmosphere over the health care law is already heated enough. It is a very heated issue on both sides. Tehn to have some Dems come out like this is not just happenstance. I remain convinced that it was crafted to attack the other side and diminsh them since this law is so unpopular in the land.

Do you think that Nancy Pelosi marching trhrough the nonvioplent rally of people oppossed to the health plan with that massive gavel in her hands wasn't carefull crafted stage work designed to provoke???

[metropolis4]

What I meant is that you started out with a very un-political message that it's nice to see both sides doing what they are to deal with these issues. It could have actually been an interesting discussion on that point. But you just couldn't help yourself. It only took to your third sentence to start the same tired old spiel. And now we're right back down wallowing in the mire of left vs. right.

Sigh, I was so hopeful for a brief moment there

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Of course, I could show you a dozen people like Mike Vanderboegh, an avowed Tea Partier, advocating murder and violence and you would just say "he doesn't count, not a real tea-party person".

Originally Posted by nolidad

But maybe I will just ask yo to prove it- Vanderboegh condemend Mother JOnes for calling him a teas partier saying they lied. I could not find one real article that put him as a member of the tea party.

Guess I called that one.

Are you really trying to equate this guys sexual perversion to his being part of the tea party movement?? I didn't think you were that zombieized by Maher, Behar and the others of the loon left.

No. Your challenge was very specific and I met it. Had I given a more pertenent example right away you would have argued semantics.

Of course, then I put up a picture of multiple posters at a tea-party rally threatening to murder senators. You didn't address that at all.

As for your picture of a sign, yeah there are a few at avery big tea party event. They are few and far in between, but of course the left wing media shows those the most. (Even Beck shows those signs and tells tea partiers to get those peoples signs down)but let us review some liberral things:

And here's your (very dishonest) strategy. You make a demand for something you don't want (arrested tea-partier). I give you that and you retort "doesn't count".

I go ahead and skip forward and show you tea-partiers advocating violence (the real topic), and you dismiss them as fringe. Perhaps they are, perhaps they are not: no one asserted every tp'er was violent.

Then comes the attempt to change the discussion: and you attack some other person or group in the belief I will defend them and we will be discussing the evils of "liberal things" and so not the thread or your claim.

It's tired. Go away.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by metropolis4

What I meant is that you started out with a very un-political message that it's nice to see both sides doing what they are to deal with these issues. It could have actually been an interesting discussion on that point. But you just couldn't help yourself. It only took to your third sentence to start the same tired old spiel. And now we're right back down wallowing in the mire of left vs. right.

Sigh, I was so hopeful for a brief moment there

Well the nation ius dividing along left right lines- it is just the way things are happening.

Guess I called that one.

Well I know that an unworthy serf as I should be flogged for daring to question your ex- cathedra statements, but as you cited 0 to prove this guy Vanderboegh an avowed tea partie and all I could find on my own search was that he called MOther JOnes a liar when they said he was a tea partier Your pithy little comment above rings very hollow.

No. Your challenge was very specific and I met it. Had I given a more pertenent example right away you would have argued semantics.

So then we can say the democratic party is avowed communists by your logic. Anita Dunn called Mao one of her favorite counselors, and Van JOnes declared himself communist so by using your logic of a guy being a sex pervert as tainting the tea party movement (somehow making the tea party culpable) then Obama is just as guilty of tax fraud as His secretary Geitner and his buddy Charlkie Rangel-- Of ocourse both ends are hogwash!

Of course, then I put up a picture of multiple posters at a tea-party rally threatening to murder senators. You didn't address that at all.

Well the word play between Brown and Browning is amusing (for its intnent is to kill the bill ) and yes this can be a veiled threat- but as these kind of posters are now very discouraged at tea party events it has become moot.

And here's your (very dishonest) strategy. You make a demand for something you don't want (arrested tea-partier). I give you that and you retort "doesn't count".

Well connect his sexual deviancy to being a member of the tea party and then you have a case other wise you are just a drowning man grasping at any little thing and hope you can slip it by. But no thanks.

I go ahead and skip forward and show you tea-partiers advocating violence (the real topic), and you dismiss them as fringe. Perhaps they are, perhaps they are not: no one asserted every tp'er was violent.

Well now counselor- you must prove they were actually advopcating violence and death threats against senators and not just word playing with Brown and Browning. Otherwise I will not deal with this until you openly renounce Sen Kerry for being on national television saying he could go to 1600 Penn. Ave and kill a bush! and then denounce all the assassinate bush marchers and denounce th ebook about assassinating Bush, and the movie about assassinating Bush then I will begin to think that these kind of things really matter to you. (Also denounce teh posters hanging Bush, Burning Bush and Cheney in effigy and posing him as Hitler)

I personally am glad that the tea party is getting rid of provacative posters like thiese- the left has no problem in dishing it out but whines to much when their tactics are turned on them.

Then comes the attempt to change the discussion: and you attack some other person or group in the belief I will defend them and we will be discussing the evils of "liberal things" and so not the thread or your claim.

Well Jerry whats sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander-- this kind of wrong headed posters happen on both sides-- but I am still awaiting you to show this guy Vanderboegh is an avowed tea partier and I am still awaiting you to show any arrests at tea party events for assault, malicious damage, vandalism, heck even trespassing!!

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by slap_j

That title is a bit hyperbolic. He didn't say Palin was responsible for the violence. He said her rhetoric was over the line. I don't disagree. I can't help but roll my eyes when I hear comparisons to Mao or Stalin but I know some people are ignorant enough to take it seriously.
.

Slap J you are level headed He is directly reffering to Palin as using things that incite violence.

Thie things that Palin has used on teh ads He specifically refers to are well used "gimmicks" by both sides. Bulls eyes on candidates and on congressional maps. Calling a candidate dead (meanig he will be ousted). That rhetoric has been around a long long time and used by both sides.

Yes Dems have recieve dthreatening phone calls- but so haven't the Gop reps as well-- as a matter of fact all 535 reps and senators receive threats on a regular basis. This is just Hoyer inciting emotions against the right. Eventh eone reported incidence of violence (brick through an office window) was false-- teh reps office is 30 stories up!!!

Why wasn't Hoyer concerned whern Stupak got death threatr when he was against the bill??
Why isn't Hoer concerned over teh Gop REp who had a bullet fired through his office windows?
Why isn't he talking about REp Backman getting phone calls threaening to rape and drag her dead ***** body throught th estreets?

Any threats that have a possibility of validity should be investigated, no matter who hurls them, but this is politics and how it has been done inthe modern era since Reagan.

I put little validity to the signs Jerry posted (yes they can be veiled threats and yes they should not have been worded that way), simply because- there were no arrests, there was no mob scene, the riot police has not had to be called out, there was n9o vandalism and no shots fired nor any followup. I am sure that the FBI is looking into it like they do with many threats received by all the Reps and Senators. If they hold to have validity then the ones who are guilty need to be tried and the weoight of th elaw brought down on them. But until that time yes it is tacky but it doesn't approach the kind of signs thatr were used at protest marches against Bush.

Tell me which ones are far worse- the tea party signs or these:

Media Didn't Care About Protest Signs Threatening Bush | NewsBusters.org

Teh tea party ones are worng- but they have a double meaning while the left posters are clear.

Even the suppossed spitting incident is trumped up.

Jesse Jackson Jr videod the whole event and not once was the N word caught on video and the "spitting" was because teh man cupped his hands and was shouting over the crowds to be heard-- Heck even when I rtalk loud sometimes I fire saliva away!

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

He is directly reffering to Palin as using things that incite violence.

If so he should quit pussyfooting around and get the police involved. Is he sincere or trying to smear or a little of both? I don't really know but I don't like some of the rhetoric I see. Maybe that's why I would be a terrible politician.

Tell me which ones are far worse- the tea party signs or these

I'll do that if you tell me what difference it makes.