[lessthanchad]

I didn't mean for this to turn into a mic vs line out debate, haha. However this is still helpful advice, so thanks.

So assuming mic vs line out isn't an issue, what amp can I go with to manage stage volume? As I mentioned earlier my amp is already turned completely around and is still an issue. If I get something like a Blues Jr would a tube screamer help, or should I just go with the Super Champ? I'm generally not a fan of pedal distortion, but I've never tried a tube screamer. Anything else I can do, or another amp I should consider?

Originally Posted by relient nelson

So you use your amp for your overdrive sounds?

I just don't understand how running a line-out solves any stage volume problems, if you're using stage monitors. If a church is using in-ears, then it will eliminate stage volume, but with floor monitors, sounds like an unnecessary sacrifice of tone.

I am of the opinion that it is almost impossible to get a good FOH (where it REALLY matters) tone through a line-out. And again, if your band uses floor monitors, the stage volume issue is comparable to just micing the amp and pumping less through the monitors.



What amp are you using currently? Are you using any pedals to get overdrive or just turning up your amp for distortion? Because a Blues Jr. with an OD pedal can sound great at low volumes.





Micing live, just find the circle with your hand of where the speaker cone is.. then place the mic a bit off center. That's what I always do.

I'm using a Peavey Bandit 112. I'm using the amp distortion, but it's just too loud on stage. I would prefer not to use pedals, but I haven't completely ruled it out. In fact, I'm thinking that's probably the best solution to my problem. We're also using floor monitors.

[nbfan]

It depends. You'll get some great, pro sounding tone with just the Junior and a TS. But if you want more integrated FX like delay and modulation, you'll appreciate getting it all in one package with a Champ. Still, developing a pedalboard with ind. effects for use with a tube combo is not a bad idea at all. More expensive, but worth it in the long run. Trust me, I've been settling for a little less than the real thing for all my guitar playing experience, and it's costed me. I'm happy with just having a Vox Tonelab, but there are many days where I wish I had gotten a good amp instead.

[relient nelson]

Originally Posted by lessthanchad

So assuming mic vs line out isn't an issue, what amp can I go with to manage stage volume? As I mentioned earlier my amp is already turned completely around and is still an issue. If I get something like a Blues Jr would a tube screamer help, or should I just go with the Super Champ? I'm generally not a fan of pedal distortion, but I've never tried a tube screamer. Anything else I can do, or another amp I should consider?

I'm using a Peavey Bandit 112. I'm using the amp distortion, but it's just too loud on stage. I would prefer not to use pedals, but I haven't completely ruled it out. In fact, I'm thinking that's probably the best solution to my problem. We're also using floor monitors.

If you're going with floor monitors, then it just depends on if you want real tube tone or not.

Just for the record, if you're going to use amp distortion, stage volume is ALWAYS going to be an issue unless you go all digital and whatnot.. boo.

Using pedals to push a tube amp is IMO going to sound much better than using digital distortion in a solid state amp.

So I would suggest buying a used Fender Blues Jr. ( I got mine for $300) and then investing in an overdrive pedal of some kind. I suggest talking to S.B.Nichols, a CGR user, because he builds very good pedals. He could build you a tubescreamer clone for a very reasonable price.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

How much cash are you looking to spend?

What tones do you like?

How many channels do you need?

Those are the most fundamental questions and they have not been addressed. I am of the opinion that a line out will not help you get good or even decent sound. Miced just little off axis will be far better for the most part.

Just throwing this out there, but how do you feel about modelers?

[Major Tom]

though a Peavey Bandit 112, and the on stage volume is just way too much

If that amp is way too much, a Blues Jr. or other 1x12 is also going to be too loud, IMO. First, read the thread in this same forum "Dealing With Volume Issues" - there is some good advice in there regarding guitar amp volume.

I use a 20 watt tube amp, 1x12 speaker with a power attenuator - that is a device that "throws away" up to like 95% of the amp's output before it hits the speaker. It turns your 20 watt amp into a 0 to 20 watt amp. You can make an attenuator for around 20 bux. A closed back also helps a bunch. If you were here in town, I'd let you borrow my set up to try it out to see if it would work, but that is what I would recommend - A Blues Jr. or similar amp + attenuator, IMO, will get you pretty close to real amp tone.

Other than that, to get significantly lower in volume, I'd suggest a mini amp like a Roland Micro Cube, or the smallest of the Vox modeling amps; something with an 8" speaker or smaller. I would not recommend most of the budget tube amps, like the Vox AC4, or Epi Valve Jr, they aren't very good (IMO) and certainly not very versatile.

Mic vs line out -. A "real" amp processes the guitar's signal in a particular lo-fi way that makes it sound like what we expect an electric guitar to sound like. With a tube amp, the phase inverter tube, the output tubes, output transformer, the speaker, and even the mic itself are a very large part of the recipe. Line outs on most tube amps are going to be in front of all those components. Its like making chili - leave out the chili powder, the tomato sauce, pepper, and its not going to be very good. Some amps do have some speaker emulation and such for the line out. At the very least if you line out a tube amp that does not have speaker emulation, you need one of the DI's that is made specifically for guitar amps, and has speaker emulation built in. Or you can use a modeler, which simulates what a tube amp does - it simulates the chili powder, the tomato sauce, and pepper to fool your taste buds into believing they are there. With a modeler, I'd use a line out, for a real amp, I'd use a real mic. It doesn't get any easier than hanging a mic in front of an amp.

[TBurst Std]

Originally Posted by akaukal

Not really. Most gigs I've gone to most often feature a 57 not quite in the centre, and maybe a little off axis. And honestly, I find mic placment far more crucial when recording, as I'm extremely picky when it comes to finding the perfect spot. However, at church, I throw a 57 where ever it lands and it usually sounds good enough through the PA speakers.

good enough through the PA speakers

Exactly my point. We should not discredit live performance sound.

[akaukal]

Originally Posted by TBurst Std

good enough through the PA speakers

Exactly my point. We should not discredit live performance sound.

I wasn't discrediting live performance sound. At church, I'm not trying to get the best tone and sound possible. I'm not going to be finicky with my tone, I just want good. The sound guys are volunteers who do their best but they are not professionals. Throwing a 57 in front of my amp yields instant satisfaction and good results and is easier to adjust than going through a DI Box. I agree that the FOH should sound great, but are you honestly trying to say that simply going directly into the board is going to yield better results with less work? That's just silly.

I aim for good enough through the PA because frankly, at church, the congregation is looking to worship and only want the sound to be good. Not bad, not amazing, just good. Obviously if the soundguys were pros or even better trained, then yeah, we'd spend some more time with mic placement, but it is not necessary to get a good sound.