[beanbag]

short article: Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web note - Yahoo! News

suicide note: Austin news, sports, weather, Longhorns, business | Statesman.com

apparently the man was extremely angry with the IRS; according to the news, he burned down his house before he decided to fly his plane into the local IRS office.

all I can say is crazy. money and anger make people do strange things. I wondered what the column of smoke was as I left my apartment this morning; I thought maybe a building was on fire, but I had no idea someone flew their plane into a building.

[Nate]

How is a piano a business asset for a software engineer?

[Ridley's Own]

What I had originally put here was written before I had read about the full scale of what this guy did. What I had written was indescribably tacky and is no longer here. Move along.

[mulletman]

I'd say this is simply more evidence that the FAA's current medical system doesn't work. The people who are mentally unstable and need help don't get it, due to the fact that if they report it, they will lose their pilot cert.... No medical care = no boxes to check on the medical form = no problems. I know that I only go to the doctor for stitches and broken bones if I can help it.

The Mesa Airlines pilot suicide of a couple years ago would seem to support this theory.

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

I'd say this is simply more evidence that the FAA's current medical system doesn't work. The people who are mentally unstable and need help don't get it, due to the fact that if they report it, they will lose their pilot cert.... No medical care = no boxes to check on the medical form = no problems. I know that I only go to the doctor for stitches and broken bones if I can help it.

The Mesa Airlines pilot suicide of a couple years ago would seem to support this theory.

That's exactly the way it is in the maritime industry as well. We have to submit a medical at least once every five years and most people disclose as little as possible. Most companies send all their employees to a "company" doctor for their physical and you basically fill the form out yourself and the doctor signs it. I know guys who's blood pressure runs high and the do "tricks" to lower it for the day of the physical. They don't want to go to their doctor and get meds to help because they would have to report that. So their high blood pressure goes untreated. What a mess.

Anyway, back to the case at hand. This guy had a wife and kid who were apparently oblivious to all this. They came home to find the house on fire and learn a few hours later that dad had killed himself. That's probably the saddest part of the story.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

That's exactly the way it is in the maritime industry as well. We have to submit a medical at least once every five years and most people disclose as little as possible. Most companies send all their employees to a "company" doctor for their physical and you basically fill the form out yourself and the doctor signs it. I know guys who's blood pressure runs high and the do "tricks" to lower it for the day of the physical. They don't want to go to their doctor and get meds to help because they would have to report that. So their high blood pressure goes untreated. What a mess.

Indeed. The system is rather dysfunctional. Except for pilots it's usually every 6 months or year, depending on age.

[nolidad]

I just think it is a little bit of a drastic way to get back at the IRS.

[Ridley's Own]

Then again, DHS called it a year ago.

[beanbag]

my kids and I have been talking all night about all this, and I heard some conflicting reports about stuff, so here's an update:

the pilot died (obviously) and killed another person as well. he set fire to his house with two people inside--according to my students, it was his wife and kid. (and his cat.) whether that is true or not remains to be seen.

also...all of the news reports say that he hit the building just before 10, so I wonder if the fire I saw was his home. I did initially think it was a home on fire, and reports say that he set it on fire around 9:15, which is when I left this morning.

anyways. I just hope that both of the people in critical condition recover, and my heart goes out to the family of the person who was killed this morning.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

Then again, DHS called it a year ago.

To make this an issue of right or left so we can point a finger at Rush or Beck or Maher or Obama is 100%bogus. This guy is simply someone who went off teh deep end and committed suicide by taking out an IRS office with him.

From the footnotes:

Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and
adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups),
and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or
rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a
single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

So people for the American Way ( a staunch left wing group) is actually a right wing hate group cause they don't like Bible believing Christinas much?

N.O.W. is a right wing group cause they are single issue- womens rights?

NARAL is right wing cause they are reproductive freedom oriented?

NAACP is a right wing hate group cause they focus on a single issue.

States rights? Well I didn't know adhering to the constitution made on part of a hate group.

Oncew again trying to politicize this single event to castigate the right (in this case) is undignified. If this was a leftist (which he could be just as well) and the right tried to hang this on left philosophy and guys like Bill Maher or Obama- that would be just as benighted as well.

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by nolidad

To make this an issue of right or left so we can point a finger at Rush or Beck or Maher or Obama is 100%bogus. This guy is simply someone who went off teh deep end and committed suicide by taking out an IRS office with him.

You're right, insofar as this fella went off the deep end. The reality is that this is the first suicide terrorist attack from a US citizen against a US target. The warning from the DHS that was castigated by the right (I have yet to mention Beck or Rush; freudian slip somewhere?) ☺☺☺☺ing called it. They predicted anti-gov't rhetoric would, eventually, turn into anti-gov't action. That is precisely what this is. He wrote a 7-page diatribe that explains his motives... he hates the gov't, so he's striking back. It isn't bogus when the language he uses mirrors the language of far right.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

You're right, insofar as this fella went off the deep end. The reality is that this is the first suicide terrorist attack from a US citizen against a US target. The warning from the DHS that was castigated by the right (I have yet to mention Beck or Rush; freudian slip somewhere?) ☺☺☺☺ing called it. They predicted anti-gov't rhetoric would, eventually, turn into anti-gov't action. That is precisely what this is. He wrote a 7-page diatribe that explains his motives... he hates the gov't, so he's striking back. It isn't bogus when the language he uses mirrors the language of far right.

Seems to me his language is just as much far left deriding corporate thugs and plunderers- that is th elanguage of th ereid, pelosi, obama Cabal. This man was jsut mad period. He di dnot write about teh right. Because the moonbatrs on the extremnes of both wings extol violence and his letter smacked of the rhetoric of both sides.

And the left is still far more guilty of violence in this nation than the right has been. That does not excuse the violenc e committed by the right, but the rhetoric from teh left can be just as inciteful as th eleft says of the rhetoric of the right.

Rush Windbag, Hannity, Oreilly, Beck and all the other conservative talking heads all decry violence and the use of it, just like the majority of leftist talking heads. Violence like this is th eresult of a deranged minid or someone pushed over the edge by actions. I am sure more will come out aboutthis and thos on the left will love to blame the right for this in order to control th emedia like they used to.

[nolidad]

As some have already sought to politicize this madmans act to smear conservatives I felt it needed to post some excerpts from his suicide note as well as the link:

Joe Stack's reported suicide note :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Nation

This is definitely rhetoric from the left:

"Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity,"...

This is also:

Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in."

This doesn't seem like right wing rhetoric to me:

"I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy f-- up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution."

Nor especially this:

"As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws."

This is definitely extreme right wing :

" can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of s--- at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along"

This is very left wing:

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

Based on his note I woul say he spent too much time listening to progressives and lefties and acted on their influence. BUT I recognize this is simp[ly a man who snapped and took matters where they didn't have to go. This is not about ideology or who "pushed" him with their influence- this is a tragedy.

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Seems to me his language is just as much far left deriding corporate thugs and plunderers-

Give it a closer reading. Its entire context is that the gov't is responsible for the man's troubles. The gov't bails out the corporations, the gov't persecuted him, etc., etc.

that is th elanguage of th ereid, pelosi, obama Cabal.

Somehow, referring to our elected leaders as a 'cabal' undercuts the rest of your argument.

And the left is still far more guilty of violence in this nation than the right has been. That does not excuse the violenc e committed by the right, but the rhetoric from teh left can be just as inciteful as th eleft says of the rhetoric of the right.

Maybe they were 'just mad,' as this guy is?

Rush Windbag, Hannity, Oreilly, Beck and all the other conservative talking heads all decry violence and the use of it, just like the majority of leftist talking heads. Violence like this is th eresult of a deranged minid or someone pushed over the edge by actions. I am sure more will come out aboutthis and thos on the left will love to blame the right for this in order to control th emedia like they used to.

Oddly enough, I've not mentioned any of those people. I'm thinking more about the Tea Baggers, the ones carrying guns to Presidential speeches, the ones declaring themselves proud 'right wing terrorists' during the summer recess, the Birthers, the Deathers, John Birchers, etc, those type of things. And while Rush, Sean, O'Reilly and Beck certainly feed those people, I don't think they're primarily responsible for the man's actions.

But then again, if your entire political worldview is predicated on a view of the gov't that is conspiratorial and ultimate goal is to control YOU (which is, I think, the underlying sentiment of the far right), then I think it's just feeding into it. We shouldn't be surprised when someone is given a gun, a target, and then finds bullets and pulls the trigger. We did, after all, hang Julius Streicher for the very thing.

And yeah, I think there's people on the far right who really do want people to start revolting against the federal gov't. This guy is clearly one of them. It's a serious threat and simply saying, 'well, the left's done it, too' (as if the Haymarket Riot is a common place thing today) or dismissing and politicizing DHS reports ignores the very real threat these people and groups present.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

As some have already sought to politicize this madmans act to smear conservatives

Is this happening? I haven't read anything but I'm sure some talking head on TV somewhere will act really victimized by it. Maybe we'll even get some tears. *crosses fingers*

In all seriousness that's low class if it's happening but I've not seen anything.

BUT I recognize this is simp[ly a man who snapped and took matters where they didn't have to go.

From what I've been reading investigators think he's been planning this for awhile. He also took the time to fill the tank to the brim with gas similar to the plan of the 9/11 hijackers.

I think it's likely a confluence of things. I don't think he's as pure an ideologue as a Tim McVeigh.