[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

That's not what we're talking abotu when we talk about sweatshops. We're talking abotu working 20 hrs a day to make a quota that if not filled, is taken out of the worker's pay check, and then being chained to their workstation and sleeping under their workstation. That's provided they get paid at all. In Hong Kong, up to $365 million is never paid to workers at all despite being earned by the workers themselves. There's also evidence that sweatshop economies actually reduce the economic viability of a country. In Mexico, for example, a worker can make up to $24 a week. But the average price of a weekly basket of groceries is $26. Since no one can actually buy anything, the local economy sags.

Well, up until your post nobody had defined what we were considering sweat shops. What you have described is certainly terrible. Is this what the OP had in mind? He mentioned t-shirts sold by rock bands? Those t-shirts are made in this environment?

[earlessdog]

That is what I'm referring to as sweatshops.
I'm referring to clothing brands we are probably all familiar with. Fruit Of The Loom and Gilden t-shirts are produced in the Dominican and El Savador, i'm not sure if they're in sweatshops or the conditions of the shops, but thats what i'm wondering.
I know Nike has been notorious for using sweatshops that reportedly used to chain workers to their stations etc. Several years back they supposedly changed the working conditions, but I'd like to see just how much.

Even Converse has moved their production of their shoes from the US to China.

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by earlessdog

That is what I'm referring to as sweatshops.
I'm referring to clothing brands we are probably all familiar with. Fruit Of The Loom and Gilden t-shirts are produced in the Dominican and El Savador, i'm not sure if they're in sweatshops or the conditions of the shops, but thats what i'm wondering.
I know Nike has been notorious for using sweatshops that reportedly used to chain workers to their stations etc. Several years back they supposedly changed the working conditions, but I'd like to see just how much.

Even Converse has moved their production of their shoes from the US to China.

I have no idea how to do that; I'd suggest maybe contacting FOTL and GILDEN directly, or maybe some of the workers welfare people.

[earlessdog]

Not sure what you mean by workers welfare people.

I've contacted PF Flyers about where their shoes are made. This is exactly what they said.
"PF Flyers are currently manufactured a small factory overseas where we work very close knit with the staff to provide an excellent environment.

Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns by email or at 1-800-622-1218.".
I think I'll phone the number for more info.

It scares me to think that major clothing manufacturing such as FOTL would use sweat shops.

But I seem to be slightly steering this thread into a different direction now.

Opinions on wether supporting sweat shops or not supporting them is worse is still open.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by earlessdog

It was either this or GD, move if required.

So it's something that has been bothering me lately. To be honest, I became aware of this stuff from a band I listen to, called Propagandhi. They only sell their clothing on non-sweatshop (and organic) shirts etc., and they are very verbal about how they feel when it comes to band shirts and such printed on sweatshop t-shirts.

With a quick search on Google, you can easily find the ridiculous working conditions that go on in sweatshops. Chinese particularly.

So lately I have wanted to refrain from buying these clothes, that have been produced in sweatshops across the world, but counter-thoughts have also come up. What if people stopped buying those products, what would happen to the workers? Would they become jobless and become worse off then they were?
Or will conditions have been forced to improve?

What would be worse, refraining from buying those products, or buying them?

It's annoying, I was just about to order a new leather jacket for $75 but I emailed inquiring and found it was produced in China. I'm assuming a sweatshop, but I don't know for sure.

What are your thoughts on this issue?

I heard what is probably the best answer to this today on teh weekend show with Mile Mcconnell.

It was referencing Haiti. They should breing in some "sweatshops" Most industry in countries start as sweat shops and as time advances the workers organize better and get better wages. (Except of course in totalitarian countries like China, Cuba, and N. Korea) Even these low wages by our standards bring many of these people to middleclass in their countries. India, China, and Bangladesh have exploding middle classes because of the se "sweatshops"

American Samoa was compelled by the US to pay teh US minimum wage and one of the 2 major canneries shut down and the 2nd is considering it. Hundreds were thrown out of work that were lower middle class in their countries.

It is a hard question and both sides have extrremely valid points, but if it allows people to advance from poverty and creates many jobs that otherwise would not be avaible for people, I say go for it.

[Epaphras]

Originally Posted by nolidad

I heard what is probably the best answer to this today on teh weekend show with Mile Mcconnell.

It was referencing Haiti. They should breing in some "sweatshops" Most industry in countries start as sweat shops and as time advances the workers organize better and get better wages. (Except of course in totalitarian countries like China, Cuba, and N. Korea) Even these low wages by our standards bring many of these people to middleclass in their countries. India, China, and Bangladesh have exploding middle classes because of the se "sweatshops"

American Samoa was compelled by the US to pay teh US minimum wage and one of the 2 major canneries shut down and the 2nd is considering it. Hundreds were thrown out of work that were lower middle class in their countries.

It is a hard question and both sides have extrremely valid points, but if it allows people to advance from poverty and creates many jobs that otherwise would not be avaible for people, I say go for it.

You have a point -- most factories in America during the Industrial Revolution we would consider sweatshops by today's standards. But change came organically, from the bottom-up, through the democratic process.

But what to do when there is no democratic process? Is it one of those things every economy must go through, it's "adolescence" if you will?

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Epaphras

You have a point -- most factories in America during the Industrial Revolution we would consider sweatshops by today's standards. But change came organically, from the bottom-up, through the democratic process.

But what to do when there is no democratic process? Is it one of those things every economy must go through, it's "adolescence" if you will?

Well the best example we have are th esweatshopsin China. These folks are compelled by trhe govt. to work long long hours at low low wages. But they flock to these jobs because the poverty is so deep. It is creating a fledgling middle class in China and a new consumer driven phase to their economy. China is on the verge of becoming th e#1 country for purchasing autos. These folks would have to work just as hard if they were in the villages and fields. But now they are creating a potential for better lives for their future generations. It is not the greatest scenario, but it is how our middle class came to be.