Market Research: Help us out.

Walkeraviator · 11-10-2009, 12:09 PM

Coming at this from anojther view....an effects loop to me is useless unless it is footswitchable. And again, unless you are applying effects to a clean tone like a Vox or Fender, then you wont find much difference between loop or in teh front of teh amp. And like has been mentioned, if you are looking for killer cleans, low wattage is not the right idea.

If it is less than 20 watts leave the loop out.

I have an effects loop on my HRD and dont use it smply because having 4 cables running to the amp is just too complicated (footswitch, guitar in, loop in, loop out).

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 11-10-2009, 03:46 PM

Now you are making this high gain from the preamp, yes?

I was under the impression you were. If so, IMO, a loop is a must have for me. I like to run delays after my preamp distortion. Thus, I need me a loop. The amount of watts do not matter to me. If your design is nearly all Power Amp distortion, then the loop WILL be useless. If you are providing the ability to get a lot of preamp distortion from 12ax7's you really need the loop.

I might go class A/B and keep the loop.

RubberChipmunk · 11-10-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Now you are making this high gain from the preamp, yes?

I was under the impression you were. If so, IMO, a loop is a must have for me. I like to run delays after my preamp distortion. Thus, I need me a loop. The amount of watts do not matter to me. If your design is nearly all Power Amp distortion, then the loop WILL be useless. If you are providing the ability to get a lot of preamp distortion from 12ax7's you really need the loop.

I might go class A/B and keep the loop.

Medium gain from the preamp. Power amp will provide the rest. Basically, its a focus on getting both if desired, or one or the other.

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 11-10-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberChipmunk

Medium gain from the preamp. Power amp will provide the rest. Basically, its a focus on getting both if desired, or one or the other.

if the preamp can provide sufficient, I think option 3 is best. It takes almost nothing more, but allows for additional functionality. Thats my thought at least.

Besides, you guys have one crazy stand out feature in the loop design.

**Gustin** · 11-10-2009, 06:10 PM

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd lean more towards having it just because I would use the amp in a number of different ways and having the loop as an option is pretty vital.

That said, I'd totally rather have a killer sounding amp that is good at what it does than an effects loop.

RubberChipmunk · 11-10-2009, 09:29 PM

Based on your responses and the fact that adding these loops is a negligible cost to us, we are going to go with Option 3 and provide both Parallel Single Ended Class A operation and effects loops. We can change it to Push-Pull Class A for an upcharge. For another upcharge I can probably make it so you can switch between the two. We want everyone to be able to get exactly the tone they are wanting to hear out of their amplifier, so it only makes sense to offer both options for those with a preference for one or the other.

Ax · 11-11-2009, 03:21 PM

Oh yeah, our amps WILL, btw, go to 11.

RubberChipmunk · 11-12-2009, 01:52 PM

Are we going to actually number them to eleven?

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 11-12-2009, 01:55 PM

for the monster, have you ever thought of doing dual power amps? Adding a practice mode with maybe a 1-3 watt little tube power amp would seriously be awesome.

RubberChipmunk · 11-12-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

for the monster, have you ever thought of doing dual power amps? Adding a practice mode with maybe a 1-3 watt little tube power amp would seriously be awesome.

Off the top of my head, two ideas to accomplish this come to mind. I could make a switch between Push-pull A and Push-pull AB. I could make that same switch go from Push-pull A to Parallel A. I could then add a switch that would turn all but one tube off. Couple that with a triode switch, and we're in business. This has the advantage of giving you high lower, low power, and every power in between, at the disadvantage of being a royal pain in the ass to wire and provide switching for. The other option would be to do just what you said and add either a tiny little EL84 in Single-ended Class A or copy what Blackstar did and wire a 12BH7 or some other dual-triode in Push-pull Class A with itself as a practice mode power section. I think this would, however, require a second output transformer and outputs. I'm not entirely sure on that.

I know most companies offer headphone jacks to accomplish practice modes. These are usually driven only by the preamp into a Solid State OP-Amp output section. What you suggest is actually a really, really good idea that I'd really like to explore once I get some time to experiment with it.

This also brings to mind another really, really good idea, but I'd like to run it by Ax and get his input before saying anything here.

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 11-12-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberChipmunk

Off the top of my head, two ideas to accomplish this come to mind. I could make a switch between Push-pull A and Push-pull AB. I could make that same switch go from Push-pull A to Parallel A. I could then add a switch that would turn all but one tube off. Couple that with a triode switch, and we're in business. This has the advantage of giving you high lower, low power, and every power in between, at the disadvantage of being a royal pain in the ass to wire and provide switching for. The other option would be to do just what you said and add either a tiny little EL84 in Single-ended Class A or copy what Blackstar did and wire a 12BH7 or some other dual-triode in Push-pull Class A with itself as a practice mode power section. I think this would, however, require a second output transformer and outputs. I'm not entirely sure on that.

I know most companies offer headphone jacks to accomplish practice modes. These are usually driven only by the preamp into a Solid State OP-Amp output section. What you suggest is actually a really, really good idea that I'd really like to explore once I get some time to experiment with it.

This also brings to mind another really, really good idea, but I'd like to run it by Ax and get his input before saying anything here.

My idea would require a second output transformer, but for me, something like that would replace several amps. I know I would prefer the second option, being as it is one switch, practice and performance.

RubberChipmunk · 11-12-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

My idea would require a second output transformer, but for me, something like that would replace several amps. I know I would prefer the second option, being as it is one switch, practice and performance.

I'm going to definitely look into that. The first option is too much work with awkward switching and wiring to really be feasible anyway.

Dbmaj7 · 11-20-2009, 11:41 AM

I also vote to leave out the effects loop. I don't have an amp with one now and don't really miss it... but then again if I use a higher gain sound I'll do it with a pedal and have my delay(s) after that. I just prefer simpler setups these days.

DB

RubberChipmunk · 11-21-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dbmaj7

I also vote to leave out the effects loop. I don't have an amp with one now and don't really miss it... but then again if I use a higher gain sound I'll do it with a pedal and have my delay(s) after that. I just prefer simpler setups these days.

DB

By default we're going to put it in, but every single thing we sell will more than likely be able to be customized to taste. Leaving out loops is a very easy thing that we'd be glad to do for you if that's what you want.

**jamforchrist123** · 11-21-2009, 10:33 AM

Do you have any idea how much these amps are going to run?

I enjoy how if a person wanted, he/she could have an entire (and freaking amazing at that) custom guitar rig that is completely custom built by CGR people including the guitar, pedals, and amps. Heck they should all come together and start a CGR gear company that sells custom gear, haha.