[crazymoose]

My cousin and I were talking about him possibly buying my Fender HotRod Deluxe, which brings up interesting opportunities for a new amp...

-Price Range - What can you afford? (I have $_)
I'll have $500 + maybe 1-200 extra if I can sell a few other things.
-Necessity - Why do you need it? Will you be playing out with it? If so, what sorts of places are you looking to play? Are you planning to mic the amp? Will you have to rely on just your amp's volume from time to time? (I play here, here, and sometimes here.)
I play at home and at church/school worship. I probably only need like a 30 watt tube at most. The 40 watt got to be too much most of the time.
-Frequency - How often are you going to be playing out? Is this something that's going to be used alot, or just once a month?
I play once a week for school worship along with occasionally for church.
-Musical Style - Artists/bands/guitarists are more helpful to list than gneres, it's best to avoid listing genres. (I want to have a sound like this artist.)
I play mostly hard rock and metal, and I'd really like a good gain channel that can handle that. That's one of my biggest things.
-Current Setup - What amp and guitar do you currently have? What sort of effects do you use? What is it about your setup that feels deficient? In other words, why do you want a new amp? (My amp is too __ for my needs.)
I'm running...
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser -> Boss ME20 -> Jekyll and Hyde -> Boss Metal Core -> Boss CE-5 -> Marshall Delay -> Boss loop -> Fender HotRod Deluxe.

I'd really like to replace the metal core and possibly the Jekyll Hyde with an amp's gain. Right now my options for metal are either way to buzzsawy with the metal core or not gainy enough with the jekyll and hyde. Fender's got a great clean sound, but I like never use the gain... I'd like to actually use amp gain rather than pedals.
-Experience - How long have you been playing guitar? Have you tried out amps already? Which/How many? What did you like/dislike about amps that you've already tried out?
I've been playing for 2 years. I know I don't like modeling amps with thousands of effects. I like just a good gain channel and possibly reverb.
-Personal Research - What amps are you interested in? Are you interested in getting a combo setup, or getting a head and cabinet separate? Tube? Solid State?
I have no idea brand-wise. I know I usually prefer tubes, but I won't fight to the death about it. I probably just want a combo, I think a cab would be kind of overkill since the 40 watt fender's already too much...
-Shopping - Where do you plan on buying from? Do you want to purchase this new, or are you willing to be a little more patient and pick up a used model?
I like to be able to try things out first so I'd like to be able to buy local. I have a decent amount of fairly large music stores in my area so it's not usually too much of an issue finding things.
-Timeline - How soon do you need a new amp? Do you already have the money for it, or is this something you're saving towards?
Whenever really... It's kind of just a bit more than a thought at the moment.

Just as an afterthought, I seem to remember hearing that orange amps are pretty good?

[bravesfan007]

Used Peavey 5150 or 6505 combo. If you look you should find one at that price.

[Ax]

Possibly a Blackstar, it'd be a stack, but you can get smaller cabs which would be easy on your back as well as not too loud.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WDzcAd1evo

[relient nelson]

Just a question.. if you're playing mostly worship music for school and church, are you sure a "metal" amp would work best for you?

[bread man]

I'm not sure what sort of bands you're talking about when you say metal, but whatever bands they are, 99% of them are probably using their amps through closed back 4x12 cabs. No matter what amp you get, it's not going to sound the same without that. Just something to keep in mind.

[RubberChipmunk]

Originally Posted by Ax

Possibly a Blackstar, it'd be a stack, but you can get smaller cabs which would be easy on your back as well as not too loud.


YouTube - BLACKSTAR HT-5 HEAD presentation

I do have to second this. I've got insanely heavy settings on mine right now, and it sounds absolutely beastly when you put it through a nice 4x12.

[crazymoose]

Originally Posted by relient nelson

Just a question.. if you're playing mostly worship music for school and church, are you sure a "metal" amp would work best for you?

Well considering metal and hard rock is like 95% of what I play at home... And we do tend to rock out quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Ax

Possibly a Blackstar, it'd be a stack, but you can get smaller cabs which would be easy on your back as well as not too loud.


YouTube - BLACKSTAR HT-5 HEAD presentation

Looks good, but (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't 5 watts kinda small? Like room/studio size only?

[RubberChipmunk]

Originally Posted by crazymoose

Looks good, but (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't 5 watts kinda small? Like room/studio size only?

Wattage does not equal volume. The two aren't even related at all, although the amp's max wattage will have a tiny bit to do with the maximum volume you can get. Wattage is actually a measure of electrical power. Your everyday 100w amp isn't even outputting 100 watts unless you dime the thing, and even then, its probably more an estimate than an exact value. To put in perspective just how little wattage has to do with volume, a 10w tube amp is only half as loud as a 100w amp. So a 5w amp is going to be about half as loud as a 50w amp. The HT-5 is plenty loud enough to be used for any application you could throw at it.

[Ax]

Originally Posted by RubberChipmunk

Wattage does not equal volume. The two aren't even related at all, although the amp's max wattage will have a tiny bit to do with the maximum volume you can get. Wattage is actually a measure of electrical power. Your everyday 100w amp isn't even outputting 100 watts unless you dime the thing, and even then, its probably more an estimate than an exact value. To put in perspective just how little wattage has to do with volume, a 10w tube amp is only half as loud as a 100w amp. So a 5w amp is going to be about half as loud as a 50w amp. The HT-5 is plenty loud enough to be used for any application you could throw at it.

Well, I would say this: If 40 watts was too much then you'll do fine with the HT-5. Low wattage amps sometimes have trouble keeping up in a live band situation where the other players are ridiculously loud. I had that problem the first time I brought my Night Train to practice. However, it was quickly rectified when I told everybody to turn down then all of a sudden, it was fine, and practices actually go smoother when you're not drowning in sound.

[RubberChipmunk]

Originally Posted by Ax

Well, I would say this: If 40 watts was too much then you'll do fine with the HT-5. Low wattage amps sometimes have trouble keeping up in a live band situation where the other players are ridiculously loud. I had that problem the first time I brought my Night Train to practice. However, it was quickly rectified when I told everybody to turn down then all of a sudden, it was fine, and practices actually go smoother when you're not drowning in sound.

You'll have that problem with any amp though. I could barely hear my AT100 over the band sometimes at practice. The worst is when you have a drummer whose volume settings are "loud" and "louder." Everyone else can turn down, but no one will hear anything.

[What5647]

Originally Posted by RubberChipmunk

Your everyday 100w amp isn't even outputting 100 watts unless you dime the thing

Actually, that is not entirely true. For a SS or digital amp, the above statement is correct. However, tube amps are different. Wattage = clean headroom/energy output. When you exceed that headroom, you're putting out more watts, but the sound is now distorted. I forget the exact number, but a dimed 100W tube amp in heavy power amp distortion is putting out far more than 100 watts. This is very important if you're playing with different speaker cabinets with difference wattage ratings.

Granted, a 100W amp dimed like that will be mind-bogglingly loud, (been there, done that, not doing it again...well, maybe...) but the principle applies for any tube amp.

Oh, one more thing: Wattage and volume aren't directly related, but they are related. Thing is 100W isn't that much louder than 50, and 5 is still more than loud enough.

[RubberChipmunk]

Originally Posted by What5647

Actually, that is not entirely true. For a SS or digital amp, the above statement is correct. However, tube amps are different. Wattage = clean headroom/energy output. When you exceed that headroom, you're putting out more watts, but the sound is now distorted. I forget the exact number, but a dimed 100W tube amp in heavy power amp distortion is putting out far more than 100 watts. This is very important if you're playing with different speaker cabinets with difference wattage ratings.

Granted, a 100W amp dimed like that will be mind-bogglingly loud, (been there, done that, not doing it again...well, maybe...) but the principle applies for any tube amp.

Oh, one more thing: Wattage and volume aren't directly related, but they are related. Thing is 100W isn't that much louder than 50, and 5 is still more than loud enough.

No, that is quite true. Wattage is a measure of electrical power, nothing else. This means that a 100w amp is capable of pushing 100 watts of power through speakers. The more wattage = more volume myth is definitely not true, even though it does have an effect. Although 100 watts can be twice as loud as 10 watts, 10w through 4x12 will be louder than 100w through 1x12. Now, while higher wattage tends to mean more clean headroom, once you hit the saturation point for the power tubes, that doesn't mean you're at 100w. You can't make it louder and suddenly its 120w. That's not how it works.

Its recommended that you get speakers that add up to more than your amp's highest wattage for two reasons. The first is because electronics is NOT an exact science. You can get close, but you cannot get exact. Your iPod is slightly different than your neighbor's iPod because components can have error ratios of up to +/- 10% for standard components or as low as +/- 1% for precision components (which are pretty expensive). This means that a 200K ohm resistor could in actuality be anywhere from 180K to 220K ohms of resistance, regardless of what it actually says. Same thing with capacitors, and many other components. In the poweramp, this can affect the output wattage very slightly. Even the tubes can affect the wattage, because they are by nature imperfect. So your amplifier wattage rating, whether solid state or tube, is an approximation anyway. Then there's the other reason, which is that electrical power needs to go somewhere. Generally, it gets converted into something. One common thing to convert power into is heat. This is why lightbulbs work. This is why you see giant heat sinks on things. The component they are protecting cannot handle the power being sent into it, so the heat sink helps keep it cool. For speakers, they convert electrical power to sound waves. But try running something at its maximum specs for a long period of time and you start drastically reducing its life span. This is why we bias tubes to an optimum level below their maximum specs. If you were to run exactly 100w into a speaker that will convert up to 100w of electrical power into sound energy for a long period of time, even considering perfectly precise components, you're going to shorten its lifespan. If you dime it, and the component variance puts your 100w amp OVER 100w, and your speakers can only handle 100w, then you are damaging your speakers.

So, I stand by everything I said.

[thesteve]

Eric,

Can you provide sources for this? My understanding is similar to his, that tube amps are rated for wattage output within the spectrum of their clean headroom and that tube amps can be pushed beyond these clean levels as it clips the signal.

[What5647]

<--- EE student, and electronics technician by profession. So, no need to lecture me on the fundamentals of electronics.

Wattage is the work being done, and the work here is converting an electrical signal to an audible signal. Granted, there are things that impact this, but under the same conditions, a 100W amp will have more clean volume than the 10W. It's kinda pointless to say that a system using more energy is not going to be louder. (Barring gross inefficiency.) That's like saying a 100 HP car will be faster than a 1000 HP car. Sure, it is possible that there is enough drivetrain loss that you lose over 900 HP between the motor and the wheels, but that just doesn't really happen.

Now, if the 100W amp is SS and can at max, dimed setting output 100W, while the 10W amp is tube and can output 110W before total tube saturation, (yes, that's a very unlikely figure) it will be louder than the 100W, assuming the same speakers are used.

Also, my understanding is that most 100W modern tube amps will output around 150W when dimed.

And still, a 10W amp will be more than loud enough.

[Rainer.]

Aside from all the techy blah-blah-blah (I say that with all the love in the world, guys ), more importantly than the wattage affecting the volume (in whatever way you believe it does), different sizes of amp, in terms of wattage and cabinet enclosures will have fundamentally different tones.

Now, back to the task at hand, I think you would do quite well with a high gain Peavey tube combo (6505, 5150, Triumph, Ultra, Triple XXX). If you can find a Yamaha T50, I use one. There are some used Mesa/Boogie combos in your range, too.

I don't personally like any of the newer 5-15W gainy amps that have been coming out recently (Blackstar, Blackheart), at least not for hard rock/metal.

As far as Oranges, maybe not the best choice for metal. Not to say I haven't heard metal come out of an Orange, in fact one of the last hardcore shows I went do had one of the guitarists using a Rockerverb, so you can go ahead and try it.