[nolidad]

Sorry for trhe multiple post- but to bring my last thoughts back to health care. Why govt. run health care is bad.

1. Teh fed has no authority to mandate people buy insurance or face fines/jail. That is a usurpation of power

2. They have already bankrupted the one attempt at public health care (Medicare) do yo want to rust them controlling all health insurance? I don't.

3. Reid and Pelosi have lied about the costs by using harmful gimmicks (like taxing immediatley and waiting 3-4 years to start covering people).

4. Due to the onerous tax plans, many private companies will be forced to abansdon their health plans they currently have because the fed will price them out of being able to keep those plans.

5. Teh majority of Americans (80%) are satisfied with their current health plans- while over haul the whole system????

6. a majority of Americans are oppossed to the current morphs of the health plans that Reid has let people look at (of course the newest morph- only reid knows). Where is the representatives responding to their people?

I am convinced the only reason why teh Obama/Reid/Pelosi cabal wants this passed before Christmas is that they know that next year is an election year and they are trusting people will forget the hideous monstrity they foisted onthe public inthis bill. Do we need health reform? yeah they system sure can use some refining- but the present liberal bills will destroy this nation quicker tha it is already going down the tubes.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

1. Teh fed has no authority to mandate people buy insurance or face fines/jail. That is a usurpation of power

This means "it might be the best thing in the world, but the constitution doesn't allow it". Is that *really* your concern? Because I doubt most citizens in the debate really care about that point. If that *were* the issue, the debate would be "this is a good plan, but we need an ammendment first"

They have already bankrupted the one attempt at public health care (Medicare) do yo want to rust them controlling all health insurance? I don't.

That's not really correct. The government has stolen from medicare. But you need to turn that into "how will that adversely effect me" to make is useful. I suspect you'll find there's no salient point related to the topic.

So do you support the abolition of medicare, medicade, and vetren's care? They fit both of the above.

3. Reid and Pelosi have lied about the costs by using harmful gimmicks (like taxing immediatley and waiting 3-4 years to start covering people).

We aren't discussing Reid and Pelosi. We are discussing healthcare.

4. Due to the onerous tax plans, many private companies will be forced to abansdon their health plans they currently have because the fed will price them out of being able to keep those plans.

Doubtful but irrellevent.

5. Teh majority of Americans (80%) are satisfied with their current health plans- while over haul the whole system????

Because the majority of Americans want a single-payor system. If your argument tries to live by the polls, it will die by the polls.

"6" has the same problem but even worse. Further, you started by saying you'd tell my why "government run healthcare" is bad and then started picking on, not the idea, but some specific bill.

It's dishonest. If your problem is with the existing bill, then what medicare is doing is irrellevent. If your problem is with the idea of universal healthcare, then the specific bill is irrellevent.

You are just tossing one accusation after another at the wall with no idea what you are saying.

[snip hysterical conspiracy rant]

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well I do support war powers act- but I never said I supported unwarranted internment. Just because their are bad things in a good concept doesn't mean the concept is bad- just the abuse of it.

Sigh. The War Powers Act restricts the war powers of the President, not expands them. The gross expansion of the executive's powers is due to criminal lawyers like Yoh finding any excuse to justify the executive.

The endangered species act. While good in its concept because it is enforced rigidly has produced great great hardship on millions of Americans . i.e. the shutdown of water to Ca. central valley up to 40,000 farmers will lose their farms if the shut off continues. thousands of migrant workers are now scrambling to find work. and food prices will shoot up in many types of food because that valley is the major growing area for several food types. For a fish that also lives in Japan in abundance. Now we shouldn't be just blindly careless about the enviorment, but I think 100,000 humans outweigh one sub species of a smelt. thus the fed has added uneeded restrictive laws on the citizenry for lack of common sense but blind adherence to a law. But this is way off topic of health care.

And here's the problem... That story, as reported by Hannity, simply wasn't true. The water has been turned on since June. And it wasn't turned off becasue of the ESA, it was turned off because that area of California is a hotbed of arguing over water between CA, AZ and NV. The problem here isn't teh ESA, it's the lack of infrastructure investment and the poor agricultural practices of agribusiness rather than purely environmental concerns. Do you know what the closure of chinook salmon harvesting did in 2008 and 2009? 23,000 jobs and 1.4 million dollars are lost by the state of California. Hannity simply ignored the facts to support his own politics rather than caring about the farmers. Its a false dilemma to posit the ESA as a 'restrictive' law, beacuse the facts don't support what you're arguing. Any other 'restrictive' laws I should know about?

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well that is just simply called politics the democrats way. I am not calling Obama a Marxist- but he has a communistic (read govt. control) fascistic(read govt control) progressive (read liberal big govt control) of the economy. He wants the fed in charge more and more. We are getting socialism foisted upon us on the installment plan. And the dems aren't teh only guilty party here. Bush expanded the scope and size of teh fed, more than any other President except FDR.

You know you're really starting to sound like a broken record...

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well there are many constitutional means by which the fed can and do govern or interfere withhow we live our personal lives. The states even more. Speed limits are one example.

Yep. And what was your point?

[nolidad]

You know you're really starting to sound like a broken record...

yeah I know- but the tune nedds to be heard.

But int he name and practice of personal freedom Americans have become ensnared in so many bondages while thinking they are free.

By the fed through SCOTUS declaring choice a "right" of women we have eliminated 45,000,000 lives because they weren't convenient.

By the fed to feed teh politicians need to be reelected the govt. (both sides) has used the taxpayers credit card and has placed this nation inan unsustainable debt situation.

Through our debt we have to do much of Chinas bidding because we need them to keep buying our dewbt- how is that free.

Through sexual freedom and a lack of oversight by the govt. Promiscuity is rampant ( 30% of10 and 12 yr olds admitted to oral sex).

Marriage is crumbling- teh divorce rate tops 50% both in and out of the church.

There is more than one way to define losing freedoms. Americansd have advanced in politics, voting, incomes, material goods, "social justice" and other things but has lost its soul and greatness in teh process. If I may qoute Jesus: "What does it profit a man if he gains his whole world but loses his soul in the process" ??? What good ias all these temporal "advancement" if it comes at the price we have been paying for a long time.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by nolidad

yeah I know- but the tune nedds to be heard.

But int he name and practice of personal freedom Americans have become ensnared in so many bondages while thinking they are free.

By the fed through SCOTUS declaring choice a "right" of women we have eliminated 45,000,000 lives because they weren't convenient.

By the fed to feed teh politicians need to be reelected the govt. (both sides) has used the taxpayers credit card and has placed this nation inan unsustainable debt situation.

Through our debt we have to do much of Chinas bidding because we need them to keep buying our dewbt- how is that free.

Through sexual freedom and a lack of oversight by the govt. Promiscuity is rampant ( 30% of10 and 12 yr olds admitted to oral sex).

Marriage is crumbling- teh divorce rate tops 50% both in and out of the church.

There is more than one way to define losing freedoms. Americansd have advanced in politics, voting, incomes, material goods, "social justice" and other things but has lost its soul and greatness in teh process. If I may qoute Jesus: "What does it profit a man if he gains his whole world but loses his soul in the process" ??? What good ias all these temporal "advancement" if it comes at the price we have been paying for a long time.

I love the song O Holy Night. It's a great song with a great message in it's own right. Every Christmas season I enjoy the first few times I hear it. Then it starts sounding a bit repetitive... Then I start changing the channel when it comes on... Then I just start rolling my eyes everytime I hear it... By next Christmas, after a good long break I'll be excited to hear it again.

There are also different versions of the song I hear. Some are simple and let the message and the melody speak for themselves. Others feel the need to over-embellish every single note, adding ridiculous amounts of runs, trills and other ornaments that begin to detract and over-run the main point of the song until ultimately the original melody and message are lost, the natural beauty is diminished and I'm rolling my eyes as the vocalist tries his hardest to hold the high note at the end and see how many notes he can string onto the end of it thinking he is making the message more powerful while he is really only detracting from it.

I'll let you make the connections for yourself

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

yeah I know- but the tune nedds to be heard.

But int he name and practice of personal freedom Americans have become ensnared in so many bondages while thinking they are free.

Your continuing disregard for topics seems very disrepectful. I suspect the bible says something abou that too.

[Fandrew]

Enough is enough. Merry Christmas, CGR.