[Almost Enough]

I wonder how much of this video is due to people just wanting to step on toes. There's a big rift in the country as of late, and it seems like people say things and do things like this because it pisses off the "other side". Oh, and by the way, glorification of the President started WAY before President Obama took office. I think people have just really started to realize it in the past 8 years (Democrats noticed it with Bush in office, and Republicans are becoming aware of it now).

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by Almost Enough

There's a big rift in the country as of late, and it seems like people say things and do things like this because it pisses off the "other side".

What?! I've certainly never been guilty that

And I disagree with you about the Jesus Camp kids. Didn't all of their parents choose to send them there? And isn't it a private camp?

I think this is getting into a whole other topic of what is and isn't scrupulous for adults in a position of authority to inculcate in children

If this was a song sung about Bush in a public school would there be more or less outrage? I'm pretty certain it would be declared a national disaster if these kids were singing about Bush. With investigations, congressional hearings and public firings of the entire school staff

I never understand this bunker mentality many conservatives seem to hold that the system is stacked against them

[redbaron]

Originally Posted by Almost Enough

I wonder how much of this video is due to people just wanting to step on toes. There's a big rift in the country as of late, and it seems like people say things and do things like this because it pisses off the "other side". Oh, and by the way, glorification of the President started WAY before President Obama took office. I think people have just really started to realize it in the past 8 years (Democrats noticed it with Bush in office, and Republicans are becoming aware of it now).

To be fair, GWB wasn't popular enough for a real cult of personality, Clinton never really capitalized on his popularity this way, GHWB wasn't very popular and Reagan/Carter/Ford came in the post-Nixon era of malaise and distrust of the executive branch.

The cult of personality bothers me even if it's not being directly promoted by the executive branch. Comparing it to the hitler youth is laughable though, if anything there are far more parallels in how the country as a whole is reacting to the president and stalinism than anything with hitler and national socialism.

Frankly I find the medias desire to deify politicians which are notoriously crooked regardless of popularity to be a bit sickening, regardless of party

[Nate]

Originally Posted by bravesfan007

I'm siding with Nate here. I mean, Obama is eligible to serve another term if elected. That puts him coming out of office in 2017. If these kids are six years old that is another seven years. They will be about twelve to thirteen years old. Though they may not remember this specifically, what could be put into their minds in that time by school teachers and administrators.

More than that, I think it's simply harmful to indoctrinate kids into having intellectual orgasms over politicians like Obamaniacs or Bushaholics are apt to do with their respective messiahs. The only person in this country saying "mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama" should be our First Lady.

The simple sound of a politician's name shouldn't be sweet to our ears (though Obama's is admittedly musical), and teaching kids to set to song [one of the most powerful media forms] the name, likeness, and contributions of a president teaches them to revere the man more than the office.

Why do you think every popular kid's show on the face of the planet uses music? It's because it's easily the single most effective way to get people [especially young people] to remember something or to internalize something.

Songs like "mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama," which the kids probably went home and rehearsed with their friends, family, to themselves, etc, engender an attitude of awe and almost romantic devotion to the man.

It doesn't have anything to do with how it might affect their political votes down the road; it has to do with how it will affect their political lives down the road. Do we really want a nation of people bred and raised to laud the government like we raise them to laud celebrities and the wealthy?

Do we really want our kids to respond to differing political gospels with a "so many reasons it's so mmm mmm, good" mentality? Or do we want to raise kids to expect government to do good things for them precisely because it's the reason we have government in the first place, to represent us?

Barack Hussein Obama should be singing the praises of school children, not the other way around.

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by Nate

Seriously?

Yes. Seriously. I am not supporting this in any way, shape or form, and find it terribly disturbing. But no, I don't think this will ultimately have naerly as big an impact on the kids' lives as everyone else here seems to believe.

I don't believe that the kids understood what was going on. I don't believe the kids see any symbolism or importance in the fact that this song was song to the tune of Battlehymn of the Republic. I don't think the kids thought of themselves as praising a man. I think the kids thought of themselves as following the teacher's instructions, just like they do every single day, if they don't want to get in trouble. I don't think they understand the political nature of their words. I don't think they understand the controversial nature of their words. At the end of the day, I don't think this was any different, from the kids' perspective, than learning the hokie-pokie. We all had to learn the hokie-pokie as kids. Did we grow up still believing that the hokie-pokie is really what's it all about? Did that song shape our metaphysical views and beliefs about the meaning of life?

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by slap_j

All I said is that both are repugnant. I don't think that because one is private it's more acceptable.



Yes. But to say it's a nascent form of the Hitler Youth is hysterical.



Why are you certain of that? Is there any precedent for that sort of thing?

There is a huge difference between public and private in cases like this. It has to do with who's paying for it and parental control or rights.

Also concerning Hitlers Youth...the organizational aspect of this might not resemble Hitlers Youth at all, but it has the potential to serve the same purpose. China used similar tactics, as do most religious organizations including Christianity.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

Yes. Seriously. I am not supporting this in any way, shape or form, and find it terribly disturbing. But no, I don't think this will ultimately have naerly as big an impact on the kids' lives as everyone else here seems to believe.

I don't believe that the kids understood what was going on. I don't believe the kids see any symbolism or importance in the fact that this song was song to the tune of Battlehymn of the Republic. I don't think the kids thought of themselves as praising a man. I think the kids thought of themselves as following the teacher's instructions, just like they do every single day, if they don't want to get in trouble. I don't think they understand the political nature of their words. I don't think they understand the controversial nature of their words. At the end of the day, I don't think this was any different, from the kids' perspective, than learning the hokie-pokie. We all had to learn the hokie-pokie as kids. Did we grow up still believing that the hokie-pokie is really what's it all about? Did that song shape our metaphysical views and beliefs about the meaning of life?

Like I said, it's not about the content of the song; it's about the nature of the song itself.

The hokey-pokey certainly affected our views about life. It taught us very specific things about song.

We grew up singing the hokey-pokey, and learned that it's ok to sing stupid songs and make silly motions.

If we grow up singing political songs, we'll learn that's it's ok to sing the praises of the president and of his policies.

It has nothing to do with Obama or what the kids understand of what they're singing; it has to do with what they're singing about.

This teaches kids that politics and politicians are things worthy of praise; like Miley Cyrus teaches them being a rock star is worthy of praise.

No, these kids won't grow up to become Obamaniacs, anymore than kids growing up now will still love Miley Cyrus in five years.

What they will grow up to become are people who respond to politicians with the same awe they'd respond to rock or pop stars.

[Obviously I don't mean that this one song and dance will do that, but that over time such singing would probably tend that way.]

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

There is a huge difference between public and private in cases like this. It has to do with who's paying for it and parental control or rights.

Both are subjecting children to nonsense. That's all I was saying.

Also concerning Hitlers Youth...the organizational aspect of this might not resemble Hitlers Youth at all, but it has the potential to serve the same purpose.

Paramilitary training? I don't see it.

Obama-centric threads get Godwin'd really fast, eh?

[jthomas1600]

Originally Posted by slap_j

Both are subjecting children to nonsense. That's all I was saying.



Paramilitary training? I don't see it.

Obama-centric threads get Godwin'd really fast, eh?

I'm not talking about the paramilitary aspect of Hitlers Youth, I'm talking about the aspect of getting people devoted to a cause for life. The best way to do this is to get them to buy into the ideology at a young age.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

I'm not talking about the paramilitary aspect of Hitlers Youth, I'm talking about the aspect of getting people devoted to a cause for life. The best way to do this is to get them to buy into the ideology at a young age.

So when is it moral or immoral to submit children to ideologies and to what extent?

[Almost Enough]

Originally Posted by redbaron

To be fair, GWB wasn't popular enough for a real cult of personality, Clinton never really capitalized on his popularity this way, GHWB wasn't very popular and Reagan/Carter/Ford came in the post-Nixon era of malaise and distrust of the executive branch.

I was actually trying to point out the overall obsession with the Presidential office. The office used to be on par with the other branches of government, but more and more it seems that the people are seeking to throw as much power towards that branch than the others. If only they sought as much from their local politicians.

But, don't let me get this thread off topic. It's going surprisingly well so far.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

I'm not talking about the paramilitary aspect of Hitlers Youth, I'm talking about the aspect of getting people devoted to a cause for life. The best way to do this is to get them to buy into the ideology at a young age.

I doubt what we're seeing here is educators trying to engineer unquestioning little worker bees.

Originally Posted by metropolis4

So when is it moral or immoral to submit children to ideologies and to what extent?

That's a big question. It probably deserves it's own thread.

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by Nate

Like I said, it's not about the content of the song; it's about the nature of the song itself.

The hokey-pokey certainly affected our views about life. It taught us very specific things about song.

We grew up singing the hokey-pokey, and learned that it's ok to sing stupid songs and make silly motions.

If we grow up singing political songs, we'll learn that's it's ok to sing the praises of the president and of his policies.

I'm saying that to the kids, singing the mmm mmm Obama song also teaches them that it's ok to sing stupid songs and make silly motions (did you notice their impeccable grasp of spirit fingers? and at such a young age!), and that's as much as they're going to take from this.

It has nothing to do with Obama or what the kids understand of what they're singing; it has to do with what they're singing about.

This teaches kids that politics and politicians are things worthy of praise; like Miley Cyrus teaches them being a rock star is worthy of praise.

I don't think they see themselves as praising Obama. I think they see themselves as learning the words the teacher told them to learn that day. At some point they will grow up and understand the implications of the song. But by that time, they will also have had so many other things influencing their opinion one way or the other about politicians and politics that some song they learned one day in elementary school won't make any significant difference. And I'm saying that this will happen by the time they start high school. By the time they actually start voting and joining the political process, they will have had so many more influences on how they view politicians that some song they sang in elementary school won't even factor into the equation at all. It will no longer be a part -- even a teeny tiny part -- of their worldview.

[Obviously I don't mean that this one song and dance will do that, but that over time such singing would probably tend that way.]

Then you're talking about something completely different than I am. I was talking about this one song and dance. Do you see any reason to believe that there is more going on here than meets the eye?

[bravesfan007]

I hold to the fact that regardless of whether or not these kids realized what they were singing, parents have a right to be upset. Even more so the school teacher, administration, and district should have some explaining to do. After all, I hardly doubt that it was part of their standardized curriculum that they are taught in the school system today.

Obviously someone along the way had to come up with the lyrics and the idea to have these kids sing it. Personally, they should fire them.

What's even more ironic is that someone had the guts to record this.

[Ak_Man4Jesus]

Sure am glad I'm Home shcooled
All My praise is for the lord!
BIC/Daniel