Are Socialism and the Bible Enemies?

Bryan · 09-20-2009, 09:25 PM

So question for everyone to discuss, is socialism contrary to Biblical principles?

jthomas1600 · 09-20-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

So question for everyone to discuss, is socialism contrary to Biblical principles?

I believe socialism is Biblical in a theocracy. Isn't the new testament model of church fairly socialistic? But we do not live in a theocracy.

**JayCarrFan** · 09-20-2009, 11:54 PM

i would say that nothing in the Bible suggests Socialism as a form of Government. And to agree with Jthomas1600, yes, the earlier church seems like a socialist microcosm.

nolidad · 09-21-2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthomas1600

I believe socialism is Biblical in a theocracy. Isn't the new testament model of church fairly socialistic? But we do not live in a theocracy.

Well socialism is just Christian rule without Christ. Because God is removed it leads to human abuse and corruption- as does all forms of human endeavors do. When done int he context of the glory of God- ot can be wonderful- when done to th eglory of man- well history has proven how it fails.

Even Americas democratric republic suffers the same. I think it was Daniel Webster who said (I paraphrase) That the American Constitution can only work with a religious people.

Bryan · 09-21-2009, 08:17 AM

why does God have to be removed from socialism? It is an economic system, not a religious system

jthomas1600 · 09-21-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

why does God have to be removed from socialism? It is an economic system, not a religious system

Because socialism is based on fairness. And man in his natural state is selfish and greedy. The early churches socialists ways were based on love and compassion.

Bryan · 09-21-2009, 08:53 AM

God has to be removed from socialism because socialism is based on fairness? Is God not fair? I don't see how that is a reason God has to be removed from socialism.

Part of the reason I like socialism (I'm not saying we should embrace it, just there are things good about it) is because I have love and compassion for all and believe all should have an equal footing to stand on.

jthomas1600 · 09-21-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

God has to be removed from socialism because socialism is based on fairness? Is God not fair? I don't see how that is a reason God has to be removed from socialism.

Part of the reason I like socialism (I'm not saying we should embrace it, just there are things good about it) is because I have love and compassion for all and believe all should have an equal footing to stand on.

I'm saying that socialism works best if God is at the center of it. That's why I referenced the early church.

slap_j · 09-21-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolidad

Well socialism is just Christian rule without Christ.

All that socialism entails is a public ownership of the means of production (natural resources, infrastructure, and so on). It doesn't have to be any particular form of government. For instance you can have a socialist republic or a socialist autocracy.

I'm not sure how one would determine what the most Christlike economic system is.

Hopeful · 09-21-2009, 05:26 PM

Most Socialist governments, in practice, allowed little individual freedom and made study of the Bible forbidden. I'm thinking mostly Eastern European block countries here who were not kind to their people and therefore has a negative connotation. Of course, kindness would be a Biblical characteristic. I would say "communal living" would be a better description.

**redbaron** · 09-21-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

God has to be removed from socialism because socialism is based on fairness? Is God not fair? I don't see how that is a reason God has to be removed from socialism.

Part of the reason I like socialism (I'm not saying we should embrace it, just there are things good about it) is because I have love and compassion for all and believe all should have an equal footing to stand on.

I think the thing you're assuming is that you could have a Christ based socialist government, which I think is laughable or naive at best.

The problem is that while it worked for the early church, and it works in Christian communities because of love for the fellow man, it doesn't work on a large scale.

I suppose if you don't believe in total depravity and the fallen nature of man, secular socialism could work.

The assumption that there is any possibility for a non-secular government in today's time is a bit silly though. Not many would stand for it since the belief in God makes you culpable for your actions, and no one wants that. Not to mention, the only examples people see of theocracies anymore are rather barbaric.

Like the rotary engine, it works in theory.

Unfortunately, we don't live in theory, we live in reality.

JerryLove · 09-21-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slap_j

I'm not sure how one would determine what the most Christlike economic system is.

By looking at how Jesus directed his followers?

slap_j · 09-21-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

By looking at how Jesus directed his followers?

Implicit in the word "Christlike" is the imitation of Christ. That doesn't mean I know how to build an economic system around his teachings. If you'd like to suggest something I'd be glad to hear it.

Bryan · 09-21-2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

I suppose if you don't believe in total depravity and the fallen nature of man, secular socialism could work.

and you think capitalism would work given those same theological truths?

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

The assumption that there is any possibility for a non-secular government in today's time is a bit silly though. Not many would stand for it since the belief in God makes you culpable for your actions, and no one wants that. Not to mention, the only examples people see of theocracies anymore are rather barbaric.

and how exactly does socialism make you not responsible for your actions?

**redbaron** · 09-22-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

and you think capitalism would work given those same theological truths?

Capitalism gives everyone the chance to succeed via hard work and intelligence. Socialism punishes success and rewards failure, by taking from those who work hard and innovate, and giving to those who are lazy and stupid. yes there are exceptions, but by creating a war between the haves and have nots, you breed envy and derision and solve it by making everyone equal. Well, other than the bourgeois, naturally.

Quote:

and how exactly does socialism make you not responsible for your actions?

I was referring to some sort of Theocratic socialism as you were suggesting, and the fact that people would not want that because of God being involved. In any secular form of governance you remove God which is what people want, heck, it's part of the reason natural selection is so popular.

If you remove God from being the ultimate power in the universe, then if our actions don't cause us legal consequences, then there are no consequences, because there is no higher authority to whom we are culpable.

I was simply pointing out that it is why people would not accept some sort of theocratic socialist construct.