[Joe F]

Originally Posted by thesteve

For a long time I've thought it would be really great if congregations were independent enough that the worship team could play behind a curtain and still effectively lead the music.

I once visited a church where the worship team was BEHIND the congregation and the screen up front was all the congregation had to look at. It seemed a bit strange at first, but it actually worked quite well.

[pooleman0]

Originally Posted by Joe F

So to continue this thread sidetrack, I find that an interesting observation about the Baloche video. When I watch the "Today is the day" video posted earlier, I see a guy standing at a mic, playing an acoustic guitar, enthusiastically singing praise. What about this is drawing the focus from God? The closeups and camera angles are at the discretion of the video director, not the people on stage.

When I watch Brewster's version, I see a guy standing at a mic, playing an electric guitar, enthusiastically singing praise. The closeups and camera angles are at the discretion of the video director, not the people on stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B300gQkgDS0

Is Brewster also drawing the focus away from God with his version?

Should they both turn their backs or be behind a wall? Hmmmmmmm... Something to think over I guess.

For me it was other things. Seeing the band getting onto private jets and taking off, the whole band of worshipers isn't equal on stage, the keyboard player is almost completely in the dark. All the moving lights and visuals. It doesn't seem right for a church service. Now in this video I can't tell if Paul is in a church service or in the middle of a concert. It looks like a concert but the screens with therics up make it look like a church service. I can't even look at his new album cover. It's just his face and quaffed hair. I know I probably sound crazy but it makes me uneasy sometimes.

Our church serves between 75-90 people during services on Sunday. Recently we were nvited to play at a much larger church. They had all the screens and lighting and whatnot. And it made me very uncomfortable when they turned on the spot light and had the lights spinning around. Then when we transitioned into the slower, more intimate worship they lowered the house lights, and everyone that belonged to that church started swaying at once. As though they had rehearsed this. It really felt unsettling. I get that same feeling sometimes when I see these kind of performances. Not always but sometimes. But in that Instance I asked them to bring the lights back up. If I rip a little solo and someone let's out a "whoa" or a gives me praise, I'll say out loud "give that praise to Jesus. The praise is His and His alone". That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to flay Paul Baloche. I just thnk that all the "glitz" can sometimes draw the worship into the wrong direction or dilute it a little.

It doesn't take much for us to lose focus or be distracted. I always try to identify and avoid the things that can rob God of His worship. Being extra vigilant about these things is good. I bring these types of issues to my pastor all the time. Sometimes he agrees and sometimes he doesn't.

[Joe F]

Thank for clarifying pooleman0,

Your obversation makes sense now and does give one something to consider.

[pooleman0]

Originally Posted by Joe F

Thank for clarifying pooleman0,

Your obversation makes sense now and does give one something to consider.

Thanks. I was worried that I may have allienated some of my brothers here.

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by pooleman0

Thanks. I was worried that I may have allienated some of my brothers here.

I would ask that you always reread what you write before you post it.
The "preview post" button is useful for this.
The reason being, several times now you've had to go back and either retract/correct what you originally wrote or had to bring a whole lot of clarity to what you wrote because you left yourself open for misunderstanding.
To me, you're giving others reasons to prejudge you based on some of your statements in the very same way that you've been prejudging Paul Baloche without basis, but instead based on casual observations.
Things are not always what they seem.

A friend of mine is a occasional worship leader and a struggling pro musician (he's quite good, btw) and at a recent show he half-jokingly called out an audience member because this person seemed to be the only one of many in attendance who were not clapping along.
The guy stood up and revealed the cast on his left arm...

[pooleman0]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

I would ask that you always reread what you write before you post it.
The "preview post" button is useful for this.
The reason being, several times now you've had to go back and either retract/correct what you originally wrote or had to bring a whole lot of clarity to what you wrote because you left yourself open for misunderstanding.
To me, you're giving others reasons to prejudge you based on some of your statements in the very same way that you've been prejudging Paul Baloche without basis, but instead based on casual observations.
Things are not always what they seem.

A friend of mine is a occasional worship leader and a struggling pro musician (he's quite good, btw) and at a recent show he half-jokingly called out an audience member because this person seemed to be the only one of many in attendance who were not clapping along.
The guy stood up and revealed the cast on his left arm...

For the sake of "clarity" let me say this. I've seen Paul Baloche on TV and live (only once live). On many occasions I have felt a bit uneasy and uncomfortable about what I have seen during some performances. After watching all and reading much of his instructional materials it seems evident that he is a well organized planner, a hands on leader, and that he pretty much has his hands into every part of the worship experience. One one of his DVDs he recommends going around your church and looking at everything, how bright or dim the lighting is, are there enough hymnals for everyone, is the temperature comfortable, are there any areas where the audio is less audible. He even noted that the smell can distract from the worship (he mentioned if it smells like cleaning fluid as an example). So I am pretty sure that the things like spotlights on stage, where everyone is place, where the camera is focused most often, the editing of music videos and the release of videos, album artwork, etc, is all under Paul's influence. I may be incorrect in assuming that, but it seems logical to me.

That is why I said he may not be practicing what he preaches, because I feel that at times those very things he noted as possible distractions are at work in his ministry. I have noticed all these things first hand, and I have formulated opinions based on my first hand experience. My very first post on the topic was definitely "shot from the hip" and I apologize for that. But I am not judging the condition of his heart, nor am I saying he is purposefully drawing attention from The Lord to himself.

Paul Baloche has done great things for the Kingdom of God and helped innumerable worship leaders, or lead worshipers, and worship teams around the globe. I personally love the man and most of his music. I am sure everyone here has played one of his songs on a Sunday morning. But Paul Baloche is a just a man. I have seen first hand where he is practically a "golden calf" in some Christian circles. No man is above reproach. Any man or woman can be swept up in the fame and adulation and loose focus on why he or she is in that position in the first place. Any man or woman as well known and respected as Paul Baloche needs to be held to a high account. It is not judging a man's heart to ask "Is this right?". It's good to occasionally step back, look around, and question what we are doing, how we are doing it, and WHO we are allowing to lead us or choosing to follow.

I guess that is all I have to say on the subject.

This post has been previewed, proofread and humbly submitted.

[gtrdave]

I've been equally uncomfortable at a traditional Catholic church service as I have at a rockin' contemporary church service where the camera seems way too focused on the the guitarist's hands.
In either situation I let the Holy Spirit be the Master of Discernment because I remember that I'm one person experiencing what I'm experiencing at that given snapshot in time and that all of my past life experiences are probably playing a part in how I'm feeling, thinking and acting at that moment.
The person on either side of me might be experiencing something totally different.
Again, recognize that things aren't always what they seem.

As far as Paul, personally, I've never met him, never seen him live, watched one of his DVD's once or twice and probably do about 3 of his songs in semi-regular rotation...although, I do know people who know him personally and they all claim that he's "a really nice guy".
So, he's got that going for him.

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts and keeping this discussion alive and civil.
Now, I'm going to go pine because there are no guitar solos in tonight's song list...

[pooleman0]

Brother, I don't know you, and I don't know what your stance is on a great number of things. But I do know you are a brother in the Lord and we are united in Our Lord Christ Jesus. If you are ever in Eastern Connecticut let me know. I'll buy you a coffee and maybe we could even shred for the Lord.

Peace Brother

[Joe F]

I read once that Dave was a "really nice guy" too.

But you know what they say about things you read online...

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by Joe F

I read once that Dave was a "really nice guy" too.

But you know what they say about things you read online...

Yeah, I know...especially when this "really nice guy" has experienced nothing but grief over the past 2 days in trying to convert my church's lighting system from the NSI-proprietary Microplex communication standard to the industry-standard DMX-512 communication medium...

It was supposed to "easy"...yeah, right...

Add to that no guitar solos tonight...

[ibanez_dude]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

Yeah, I know...especially when this "really nice guy" has experienced nothing but grief over the past 2 days in trying to convert my church's lighting system from the NSI-proprietary Microplex communication standard to the industry-standard DMX-512 communication medium...

ugggh, not fun my friend. Once everything is DMX-512 though, you can rest assured that your system will be much more compatible with other equipment.