[mulletman]

Originally Posted by scared2mosh

Camaros are more the dragstrip kind of car IMO

The power to weight ratio of the base model Camaro is just over 12.4 pounds/horse. The power to weight ratio of a new Miata is 14.1 pounds/horse. That's less than 2 pounds.... between your 'dragstrip car,' and a car that is usually red, and driven by 50+ year-old women.

Besides. The world isn't made of straight lines....

Originally Posted by scared2mosh

I would still take the Camaro over ANY Honda.

And I would gladly take an old Bug over the Camaro. But opinions aren't really relevant....

The NSX and S2000 were awesome....

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by scared2mosh

I simply mean you can call a car a "lumbering pig" without ever actually being in it and seeing how it performs.

Good point. Let's look at the facts:

1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4

Length: 178.9 in.
Width: 72.4 in.
Height: 49.3 in.
Wheel Base: 97.2 in.
Curb Weight: 3803 lbs.
Front Head Room: 37.1 in.
Front Hip Room: 56.7 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 55.9 in.
Rear Head Room: 34.1 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 52 in.
Rear Hip Room: 56.7 in.
Front Leg Room: 44.2 in.
Rear Leg Room: 28.5 in.
Luggage Capacity: 11.1 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 4

Performance Data

Base Number of Cylinders: 6
Base Engine Size: 3 liters
Base Engine Type: V6
Horsepower: 300 hp
Max Horsepower: 6000 rpm
Torque: 307 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 2500 rpm
Drive Type: AWD
Turning Circle: 37.4 ft.

2010 Camaro LS

Length: 190.4 in.
Width: 75.5 in.
Height: 54.2 in.
Wheel Base: 112.3 in.
Curb Weight: 3780 lbs.
Front Head Room: 37.4 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 56.9 in.
Rear Head Room: 35.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 42.5 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.4 in.
Rear Leg Room: 29.9 in.
Luggage Capacity: 11.3 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 4

Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 6
Base Engine Size: 3.6 liters
Base Engine Type: V6
Horsepower: 304 hp
Max Horsepower: 6400 rpm
Torque: 273 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 5200 rpm
Drive Type: RWD
Turning Circle: 37.7 ft.


As you can see, the VR-4 weighs the same amount as the Camaro (likely because of the AWD system, despite being dimensionally smaller). Many people, and I admit to being one of these persons, thought that while the VR-4 was a monster, it was a heavy one and would have improved greatly from a drastic weight loss. Some would call a car with less traction (RWD Vs. AWD) and the same weight as the VR-4 a lumbering pig.

[scared2mosh]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

And I would gladly take an old Bug over the Camaro. But opinions aren't really relevant....

that reminds me... my neibor is selling a 71 Super Bug... I would consider buying it (either to drive or to make into a sandrail) except I'm poor

Still they are really quick

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by scared2mosh

that reminds me... my neibor is selling a 71 Super Bug... I would consider buying it (either to drive or to make into a sandrail) except I'm poor

Still they are really quick

'71 is too new. '67 or older were the good ones.....

And yes. Quick.

YouTube - Dragrace turbo bug 8.99 @ 157mph 1/4 mile

[MyChainsAreGone]

Originally Posted by mattslope

I read the above quoted material several times and have thus come to one logical conclusion: You are drunk. Or a newb. Or a bot/troll. I'm still confused, actually.

20,000 what? Larpa? Hit points? I.Q.?

He knows how to communicate. And, yes, he knows more than most of us about cars. And an automatic is permissable if you don't have full function of your legs.

What have a problem with me having my own opinion? I've read this quote and come to the conclusion; You are stupid. an idiot. a troll. or all of those.

I'm going to have to go with stupid though, seeing as you cant answer quote number two yourself.

[el cabong]

Everybody play nice, please.

[mulletman]

I'd hate to see such a productive thread as this get clopsed.

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by MyChainsAreGone

What have a problem with me having my own opinion? I've read this quote and come to the conclusion; You are stupid. an idiot. a troll. or all of those.

I'm going to have to go with stupid though, seeing as you cant answer quote number two yourself.

It's totally your opinion that I have issue with. Well read. So, moving on, lol do u like carz cus i do 2???

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

The NSX and S2000 were awesome....

I was thinking the same thing regarding Hondas.

[gtrdave]

The Viper SRT-10 ACR is 3400 pounds...400 shy of the Camaro...and is RWD only...yet this supposed near lumbering pig of car with a traction disadvantage rules the Nurburgring.
Just goes to show you that opinions are like...well, I'll leave it at that.

And, yes, Beetles are "quick" like Civics are "quick" and can be made to run sub-9 second 1/4s...with several thousands of dollars and the loss of most everything that weighs anything...but this is hardly a vehicle that you'd want to be stuck in for any length of time longer than that 1/4 mile and you SURE would not want to take a hard left or right turn in it.
And yet I thought that some in this thread were earlier reminding others in this thread that the world was not full of just straight roads?

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by mattslope

He knows how to communicate. And, yes, he knows more than most of us about cars. And an automatic is permissable if you don't have full function of your legs.

I've learned how to communicate after doing so poorly for quite a while...and I know a bit about cars, but probably not more than some...and when I lived in SoCal and was stuck in traffic for hours on end, clutch pedal in, clutch pedal out, repeat, do NOT enjoy, I so wanted an atx shifted car, so I converted over and the last 5 newer cars were all autos...until I moved back to the east coast and my commute was a 35 mile lonely meander through the rolling hills of Chester and Lancaster counties.
I basically traded the atx for an mtx, and became teh again.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

The Viper SRT-10 ACR is 3400 pounds...400 shy of the Camaro...and is RWD only...yet this supposed near lumbering pig of car with a traction disadvantage rules the Nurburgring.
Just goes to show you that opinions are like...well, I'll leave it at that.

The Nurburgring is an extremely high-speed track, that favors power and high-speed acceleration and aerodynamics more than anything else. While it's a decent measure of speed, I wouldn't regard it as a litmus test for determining what makes a great car.... It's a track an F1 car would destroy, while a Lotus driver might be bored.

Originally Posted by gtrdave

And, yes, Beetles are "quick" like Civics are "quick" and can be made to run sub-9 second 1/4s...with several thousands of dollars and the loss of most everything that weighs anything...but this is hardly a vehicle that you'd want to be stuck in for any length of time longer than that 1/4 mile and you SURE would not want to take a hard left or right turn in it.
And yet I thought that some in this thread were earlier reminding others in this thread that the world was not full of just straight roads?

Indeed. And no, I wouldn't want to drive a 30 psi Bug on the street. The 'Bug is quick' comment simply came from the fact that someone else said it, posted a lame video, and I found that link entertaining. That's all. The world is still not full of straight roads, and the Bug is still a suspension catastrophe. A 'quick' Bug would only be fun if it looked stock-ish.

[gtrdave]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

The Nurburgring is an extremely high-speed track, that favors power and high-speed acceleration and aerodynamics more than anything else. While it's a decent measure of speed, I wouldn't regard it as a litmus test for determining what makes a great car.... It's a track an F1 car would destroy, while a Lotus driver might be bored.

Well, for the Lotus driver we'll get some orange cones and lay them out in a shopping mall parking lot...

[LaserRacer]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

The Viper SRT-10 ACR is 3400 pounds...400 shy of the Camaro...and is RWD only...yet this supposed near lumbering pig of car with a traction disadvantage rules the Nurburgring.
Just goes to show you that opinions are like...well, I'll leave it at that.

With a car like that, It is all about driver skill...Without it, the car is worse than a lumbering pig, Its more like a 3000 pound chicken with no head.

I almost sideswiped a brand new Ford GT like a year and a half ago, he decided to make a right on red in front of me... when he punched it, the car just spun about 50-60 degrees and sat there billowing smoke...He is lucky he finally caught though, because I really wanted to get a new car (and this seemed like a good opportunity). Moral of the story, Just because you can make 1000 HP doesn't always mean the car can effectively go fast in the real word.

Ben has a great video of a driver on a track in a SRT-10 who obviously can't handle the car...I will let him post it for you instead of spoiling the suprise.

[LaserRacer]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

The Nurburgring is an extremely high-speed track, that favors power and high-speed acceleration and aerodynamics more than anything else. While it's a decent measure of speed, I wouldn't regard it as a litmus test for determining what makes a great car.... It's a track an F1 car would destroy, while a Lotus driver might be bored.

+ eleventy billion.

The Nurburgring is an awesome track... however, there are many sections of it where I imagine most attainable street cars would be flat out...Sections of it are just like a giant drag strip with some elevation change... There are some turns in it, however (without having ever driven it) I would imagine that most of the turns are 80MPH+ in anything you would want to drive on it.

Frankly I think something like Laguna Seca would be more balanced...I would love to see somebody try to take a heavy car through the corkscrew quickly.