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Unread 08-14-2009, 01:33 PM   #16
dept. of redundancy dept.
 
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The tofu industry takes advantage of vegetarians.

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Unread 08-14-2009, 01:44 PM   #17
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The tofu industry takes advantage of vegetarians.
Fried tofu is delicious...

Tofu isn't only for vegetarians.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 01:52 PM   #18
dept. of redundancy dept.
 
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Tofu isn't only for vegetarians.
Christian music should be more like tofu.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 06:29 PM   #19
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Pseudo-Christian artists, quiet possibly.

CCM? No, I highly doubt that, Bands like Tenth Avenue north or artists like Chris Tomlin, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Matt Redman actually portray their faith and love for Christ.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 06:57 PM   #20
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Bands like Tenth Avenue north or artists like Chris Tomlin, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Matt Redman actually portray their faith and love for Christ.
In a way, they also get payed to... Think about that one a bit.
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Unread 08-14-2009, 07:43 PM   #21
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Pseudo-Christian artists, quiet possibly.

CCM? No, I highly doubt that, Bands like Tenth Avenue north or artists like Chris Tomlin, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Matt Redman actually portray their faith and love for Christ.
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In a way, they also get payed to... Think about that one a bit.
Exactly.

I've long been of the idea that when someone markets themselves to a particular group, it's basically just that. A marketing decision. When you have a 'captive audience' that will buy your product just because you're a Christian.... then you don't have to be as good as the next guy. This is how bands like Relient K succeed.

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Unread 08-14-2009, 08:35 PM   #22
and you were wondering??
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When you have a 'captive audience' that will buy your product just because you're a Christian.... then you don't have to be as good as the next guy. This is how bands like Relient K succeed.

Amen.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 03:18 AM   #23
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On the one hand, I'll easily believe that there are plenty of bands who hop into the Christian industry without giving a second thought or care to what they're singing.

On the other hand, though, musicians (like anyone else) have themselves and often their families to feed, and it's a little annoying when some Christians act like any Christian band who cares about money at all is "selling out" or "not really ministering." There seems to be this fantasy that any "true Christian artist" should be so entirely motivated by fire for God and the desire to worship that they would still give up the majority of their lives and energy to go on year-long tours even if they didn't make a single penny from it. Obviously, one can care too much about profit, and the spirit in which a musician plays is important, but at the end of the day, it's also a job. A Christian who's a musician is not selling out for wanting a paycheck any more than a Christian who fixes cars is selling out for wanting customers to pay for their repairs. Save for a select, lucky few, being a professional musician is a tough living -- just ask my uncle.

I realize that Christians have different opinions on profanity, but I hate assumptions like this. When did the number of cuss words a band uses become a litmus test for how "Christian" they are?

I'll grant that there are reasons why it might be a good idea for Christians in a band to keep a lid on the language in certain venues, but I'm still disappointed by the idea that some listeners are willing to second-guess a songwriter's faith on the basis of a couple questionable words.
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First I agree. Bands don't need to have explicitly Christian lyrics to be Christian. I was simply offended by the fact that they would use such language more than many of the secular bands I saw, put a large sign saying "We F--- S--- Up!" at their merch table. Think about it. What if they'd just written, "We have sex with feces!"? This is probably getting into the "Is swearing wrong?" topic, but assuming you believe swearing is wrong, I don't see how you couldn't question a complete lack of effort to keep their speech clean.

If you think swearing is fine, then I get why you wouldn't think that's a problem.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 06:26 AM   #24
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I was simply offended by the fact that they would use such language more than many of the secular bands I saw, put a large sign saying "We F--- S--- Up!" at their merch table. Think about it. What if they'd just written, "We have sex with feces!"? This is probably getting into the "Is swearing wrong?" topic, but assuming you believe swearing is wrong, I don't see how you couldn't question a complete lack of effort to keep their speech clean.
Regardless of your opinion on cussing, there's no possible way you can posit "we have sex with feces" as a legitimate translation of "we ☺☺☺☺ ☺☺☺☺ up" unless you're a complete boob.

Words, even cusswords, can mean many different things. Perhaps a better translation of the sign would be "We make a mess out of things" or "We're awesome in our crazed stupidity."

(Is putting "☺☺☺☺" in the middle of the verb "to ☺☺☺☺ up" considered splitting an infinitive? )
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Unread 08-15-2009, 11:46 AM   #25
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Ok, fair enough, I kinda got carried away. I still don't think it just means "We mess stuff up" but that's an argument for a different thread.
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Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. - Stephen Hawking
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Unread 08-15-2009, 12:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet View Post
Exactly.

I've long been of the idea that when someone markets themselves to a particular group, it's basically just that. A marketing decision. When you have a 'captive audience' that will buy your product just because you're a Christian.... then you don't have to be as good as the next guy. This is how bands like Relient K succeed.

SO... my band has not "hit it big". We are a Christian band. We are 3 Christians. We play Christian music. We write songs from a "Christian angle", if you will... When we got together, we started off doing some classic rock, but when we started writing music, it was all Christian. We felt that that is where God wanted us to go, so that is where we went with it. Not a marketing decision. We advertise ourselves as a Christian band, but we will play about anywhere (no strip clubs, etc...). But the music we play, wherever we play, is the music we play. It points to Christ and God. Maybe we aren't as good as the next guy, but it ain't because we decided just to play Christian music...
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Unread 08-15-2009, 12:32 PM   #27
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How can you be sure that some bands which appear to have a few Christian lyrics are "taking advantage" of the Christian scene?

I feel like whomever writes the lyrics for a band which has both "Christian" lyrics and "secular" lyrics is presenting a more complete picture of his identity. People write lyrics to express themselves; they are Christian, but they are also related to someone, making them fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters, friends, or lovers; they have hobbies; they may have a regional allegiance to wherever they've grown up or lived for a period of time, etc. Not to mention, when it comes to identifying as Christian, everyone has a completely different conception of what a Christian identity should be. These people may be perfectly acceptable in one eye and near heretical in another. I think opinions on secular artists who write Christian lyrics are entirely subjective and don't have a quantifiable or meaningful standard by which to measure these artists' actions.

Quote:
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I agree that Christians can write and perform things other than "Christian" songs. THere is a lot of good music out there (as well as a lot of garbage). I am fine with a "Christian Band" or a "band full of CHristians" performing or writing songs that are not explicit praise songs, etc. But let's face it: There is lyrics or subject matter to lotsa songs that if a band (or person) sang them, I would question not (necessarily) their salvation, but maybe their walk with Him. LAnguage is the same way. The Bible does talk about how we should communicate. What comes outta our mouths is a reflection of what is happening inside. I am a sinner, saved by His grace. I still sin. Among those sins is I sometimes say things I should not. I am working on NOT doing that, but I do sometimes. When I do, His grace is sufficient to cover me. I do not lose my relationship with Him. But I do not glory in it. I think a Christian (whether musician or "civilian") should control the communication that comes outta their mouths. Just my opinion, but one that has some backing in scripture, I believe...
Why should you question their walk with Him? Who are you to question? In addition, it all depends on whether you are viewing your bands as role models or as men and women who are in the position to provide empathy/sympathy. Artists write to both. If artists (or writers) are not working as role models or for a specific cause, then they are writing perhaps for a sense of catharsis; people really like to write when they're unhappy. When they're unhappy, they're usually pouring out their troubles or their faults, or both. This is a good thing, because when the rest of us listen to them, we find them humanized, we can relate to them, we realize that not everyone is perfect and that we're not the first to be lead in to sin or to not meet the standards of our values.

Although, maybe you are talking about when people write sexually charged lyrics/songs, or when people write lyrics which don't always fit the interpretations of Biblical decency. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. We're all human, we all feel the same things, we all want to express the same energy. I would tend to think these artists are, once again, not writing to be role models but writing to express their identity and/or express the emotions and experiences of the people.


I tend to feel that in general, CCM music labels are taking advantage of Christians big time. Most of the music just doesn't seem worth it. Artists are presented to the public because they are marketable and Christian. And when questioned on why the CCM music industry isn't making better music, I've heard the argument from the defense that they "are doing their best for God, so it would be wrong for us to ask more". Well, the stuff coming out of the CCM industry is a product. It is being sold for a profit, regardless of the spiritual message. When you compare this product to the secular music industry, it tends to be inferior. So, why can't we ask for better music from the CCM industry when we're paying for it? I do feel that people will buy certain products over other ones just because they are labeled "Christian", regardless of quality. If Christians who purchased "Christian" label products started refusing to buy inferior products, the industry would change and start to produce higher quality music.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 01:09 PM   #28
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SO... my band has not "hit it big". We are a Christian band. We are 3 Christians. We play Christian music. We write songs from a "Christian angle", if you will... When we got together, we started off doing some classic rock, but when we started writing music, it was all Christian. We felt that that is where God wanted us to go, so that is where we went with it. Not a marketing decision. We advertise ourselves as a Christian band, but we will play about anywhere (no strip clubs, etc...). But the music we play, wherever we play, is the music we play. It points to Christ and God. Maybe we aren't as good as the next guy, but it ain't because we decided just to play Christian music...
I never said that bands are inferior because they choose to be 'Christian' bands.... I stated that bands who choose to market themselves as Christian don't have to be as competitive as the rest in order to survive, as they have a semi-captive audience. That's all.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 02:05 PM   #29
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Ok, fair enough, I kinda got carried away. I still don't think it just means "We mess stuff up" but that's an argument for a different thread.
It's indisputable, though, that it has absolutely nothing to do with either copulation or defecation.
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Unread 08-15-2009, 08:11 PM   #30
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I never said that bands are inferior because they choose to be 'Christian' bands.... I stated that bands who choose to market themselves as Christian don't have to be as competitive as the rest in order to survive, as they have a semi-captive audience. That's all.
Fair enough... Sometimes things get lost in transmission over the net... I was just supporting that putting yourself out as a Christian band is not always about marketing... though I am sure sometimes it is...
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