[nolidad]

I find it amazing that after 8 years of hearing Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Shumer, Rangel, Kennedy, Kerry, and dozens of other liberal politicians rail against Presidient Bush and many of those in his cabinet (and of course Cheny), that they are whining about people protesting sevewral of Pres. Obamas plans.

With some of th evile things they called Bush et al on national television, they have unlimited audacity to now go on national television and call those who protest Obamas health care plans as violent mobs, nazis, unruly etc.

President Obama told ACORN during the campaign to go into heighborhoods and get in peoples faces and they loved it, but howq they howl when the shoe is on the other foot and they have to face the same criticism.

Oh well I take solace inknowing that as unpopular as Bush and Cheney were Reid and Pelosi had even worse approval ratings.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by nolidad

With some of th evile things they called Bush et al on national television, they have unlimited audacity to now go on national television and call those who protest Obamas health care plans as violent mobs, nazis, unruly etc.

I don't think Pelosi called them Nazis (although maybe someone else did?). She said that some of the protesters were displaying swastikas. I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. I know this is a generalization but it does seem that Americans tend to overdo the Nazi comparisons. I'm sure you can find scores of protest signs comparing dubya to Hitler with a cursory Google image search.

The real question is how much of these protests are genuine grassroots and how much is astroturf?

[PatchworkMan]

A lot of the public protests have been in very bad taste and have been performed very rudely and disruptively. There is plenty about them to criticize. The fact that we disagree with President Obama's plan for healthcare does not justify bad taste or rudeness, nor the support of bad taste or rudeness, nor even the rationalization of bad taste or rudeness. And the fact that Nancy Pelosi is a misguided windbag does not strip her of the authority to point out bad taste or rudeness when it arises.

[Ax]

Originally Posted by slap_j

I don't think Pelosi called them Nazis (although maybe someone else did?). She said that some of the protesters were displaying swastikas. I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. I know this is a generalization but it does seem that Americans tend to overdo the Nazi comparisons. I'm sure you can find scores of protest signs comparing dubya to Hitler with a cursory Google image search.

The real question is how much of these protests are genuine grassroots and how much is astroturf?

I've heard many people refer to Bush as Hitler.


That being said. I know a lot of people who are genuinely angry and a lot of the protesters and this "mob" aren't even Republicans. Furthermore, they're way too disorganized to be "astroturf"... Couple that with Obama's submarine-diving approval ratings... Should tell him something.

Btw, to back myself up. Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S APPROVAL RATING DROPS TO ALL-TIME LOW OF 50% - New York Post

Note: I didn't even need to turn to Fox to find this one.

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by slap_j

I don't think Pelosi called them Nazis (although maybe someone else did?). She said that some of the protesters were displaying swastikas. I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. I know this is a generalization but it does seem that Americans tend to overdo the Nazi comparisons. I'm sure you can find scores of protest signs comparing dubya to Hitler with a cursory Google image search.

The real question is how much of these protests are genuine grassroots and how much is astroturf?

Well being one who does watch news alot-(Fox being my channel of choice) I have not heard Oreilly, Beck, Hannity either on air on on their sites telling folks about when a town hall meeting will take place.

I have heard that one former conservative politco has done some "astroturfing" and has spent a whopping $3,000 to do so.

A lot of the public protests have been in very bad taste and have been performed very rudely and disruptively. There is plenty about them to criticize. The fact that we disagree with President Obama's plan for healthcare does not justify bad taste or rudeness, nor the support of bad taste or rudeness, nor even the rationalization of bad taste or rudeness. And the fact that Nancy Pelosi is a misguided windbag does not strip her of the authority to point out bad taste or rudeness when it arises.

Yes there has been alot of shouting at politicians. But I remember when Cindy Sheehan went on her campaign against Bush. He welcomed her to his ranch and even on nationalk television said he respects her right to disagree with him even as louodly and rudely as she did.

Pelosi would be more credible if she was as vocal when ACorn and the New Black PAnthers were on their tirades and when conservative politicians were treated extremely rudely at colleges to the point they had to be escorted out by th epolice fo rtheir protection.

[scarlet.starlet]

Freedom of speech means that you can say whatever you want, in public or in print, provided that it doesn't endanger other people's lives, and you can do so without being arrested.

The first amendment does NOT prevent anyone from criticizing you, it does NOT prevent you from being sued for libel, and it does NOT cover non-peaceful protests. If you are being rude and violent and disruptive, you may very well be removed from the premises.

Everyone has an equal right to speak freely, but with this right comes the responsibility to think before you open your mouth.

[mulletman]

Can we please stop all of this "liberal vs. conservative" idiocy? Can we be done with the partisan hackery? Seriously, folks. Everyone needs to stop complaining about the other party (who is in power) and how they were so 'unfair' and full of complaints about the original party (when they were in power), and how they expected everyone to be nice to their party, but turn around and complain about the current party in power....

Do we see the trend here, the useless and endless complaining based on little but party identification? Every "conservative" is so miffed about the things that were heaped on Bush and Cheney, meanwhile they're stuck calling Obama "Comrade." Is this seriously what we consider to be politics? No wonder the system is broken...

Newsflash, folks.... When you nominate candidates from major parties, you automatically get only whoever they think can get elected. Not whoever could actually do a good job. You end up with the mediocre. South Park got it right. We have the vote, but our choices were like a Turd Sandwich, or a Giant ☺☺☺☺☺☺. Now you tell me, which is superior?

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by Ax

IThat being said. I know a lot of people who are genuinely angry and a lot of the protesters and this "mob" aren't even Republicans. Furthermore, they're way too disorganized to be "astroturf"...

I only mention it because of memos released by PACs such as this which state that their aim is to "rattle" the representatives.

Couple that with Obama's submarine-diving approval ratings...

I do believe real people are really concerned. I just think that if there are groups that want to encourage anything other than honest and constructive dialogue that they ought to be exposed.

[Skeeter]

Originally Posted by Ax

I've heard many people refer to Bush as Hitler.


That being said. I know a lot of people who are genuinely angry and a lot of the protesters and this "mob" aren't even Republicans. Furthermore, they're way too disorganized to be "astroturf"... Couple that with Obama's submarine-diving approval ratings... Should tell him something.

Btw, to back myself up. Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S APPROVAL RATING DROPS TO ALL-TIME LOW OF 50% - New York Post

Note: I didn't even need to turn to Fox to find this one.

And on the other side of things, there's this.

[PatchworkMan]

"But liberals once said things just as bad," is no excuse. A lot of these protests are nothing more than attempts to cause trouble. Rather than encouraging and rationalizing these displays of buffoonery, conservatives should be doing everything in their power to distance themselves from loud, ignorant redneck image they largely acquired during the Bush years.

It's also worth mentioning that Obama's healthcare plan is unlikely to pass.

[JerryLove]

Conservative politicos decrying public protest:
Check 4:42 into the video http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...alther-skelter

[mulletman]

Jon Stewart is amazing.

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

Newsflash, folks.... When you nominate candidates from major parties, you automatically get only whoever they think can get elected. Not whoever could actually do a good job. You end up with the mediocre.

I think you'd be hard pressed to say that any president in the past 100 years has truly been incompetent at their job. Unpopular? Sure. Made decisions that ended up causing more negative than positive? Definitely. Incompetent? Not really.

Major parties, in fact I'd say, have a much better track record of turning out candidates whose ideals reflect that of the greater American public than any third party ever has; mostly because the major parties tend to be mostly centrist in the political spectrum. Any person who has the drive to become President in the first place should know that the conduit is through the parties...

IMO one of the problems that people have these days is an incredible amount of cynicism regarding the government. We are inclined to distrust our leaders, which I don't know is such a positive thing sometimes.

[tlj009]

I think you'd be hard pressed to say that any president in the past 100 years has truly been incompetent at their job. Unpopular? Sure. Made decisions that ended up causing more negative than positive? Definitely. Incompetent? Not really.

Major parties, in fact I'd say, have a much better track record of turning out candidates whose ideals reflect that of the greater American public than any third party ever has; mostly because the major parties tend to be mostly centrist in the political spectrum. Any person who has the drive to become President in the first place should know that the conduit is through the parties...

IMO one of the problems that people have these days is an incredible amount of cynicism regarding the government. We are inclined to distrust our leaders, which I don't know is such a positive thing sometimes.

Here in Louisiana, there have been many instances that a politicians says something to the effect of "I didn't know what the bill was. If I had known, I would never have voted for it." That, to me, is incompetent. And also a reason to distrust our leaders along with all of the other scandals that are brought to light almost daily.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

I think you'd be hard pressed to say that any president in the past 100 years has truly been incompetent at their job. Unpopular? Sure. Made decisions that ended up causing more negative than positive? Definitely. Incompetent? Not really.

Did I ever mention the term "incompetent?" I don't believe I did. I accused them of being "mediocre," and "average." And I stand by that. What we have is a giant popularity contest, mixed with excessive bureaucracy. It prevents the complete idiots from having a chance, as well as the truly brilliant. Both ends of the spectrum are omitted, and we end up with the "mediocre."

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Major parties, in fact I'd say, have a much better track record of turning out candidates whose ideals reflect that of the greater American public than any third party ever has; mostly because the major parties tend to be mostly centrist in the political spectrum. Any person who has the drive to become President in the first place should know that the conduit is through the parties...

Right. And the greater American public has a pretty poor political knowledge base, in my experience. I make no exception for myself. But again, when you have the uneducated electing the most popular, you end up with mediocrity. Mr. George Washington had no party... and you can see throughout history that candidates without major party support used to have much better chances.... up until the Civil War.

Originally Posted by Rainer.

IMO one of the problems that people have these days is an incredible amount of cynicism regarding the government. We are inclined to distrust our leaders, which I don't know is such a positive thing sometimes.

Perhaps. I don't think the cynicism and distrust is unwarranted, however. They've earned it.