[DaGeek]

Si estés tomando una clase de español este semestre, ponga su nombre o lo que vas a hacer aquí .

Tengo Español 102 este semestre porque tengo que tomarla. Sin embargo, tengo Rosetta Stone, así quiero usar eso también.

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by DaGeek

Si estás tomando una clase de español este semestre, ponga su nombre o lo que vas a hacer aquí .

Tengo Español 102 este semestre porque tengo que tomarla. Sin embargo, tengo Rosetta Stone, así que quiero usar eso también.

Voy a enseñar un curso de español este semestre...

Normalmente, no es recomendado utilizar Rosetta Stone junto con tu clase. Habla con tu profesor antes de combinar los dos recursos. Si te sirve, bueno, puedes hacer lo que quieras, pero primero debes dejar que tu profesor sepa lo que estás haciendo.

[DaGeek]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

Voy a enseñar un curso de español este semestre...

Normalmente, no es recomendado utilizar Rosetta Stone junto con tu clase. Habla con tu profesor antes de combinar los dos recursos. Si te sirve, bueno, puedes hacer lo que quieras, pero primero debes dejar que tu profesor sepa lo que estás haciendo.

¿Estás emocionado? ¿Cómo te va el viajo a America Sur?


Le preguntaré. Mi profesora pasada lo recomendó, pero voy a hacer seguro.


También, ¿por qué no es correcto usar el subjuntivo en mi pregunta original?

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by DaGeek

También, ¿por qué no es correcto usar el subjuntivo en mi pregunta original?

In general, you should never use the present subjunctive after "si". I can´t think of any exception to this rule off the top of my head.

[DaGeek]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

In general, you should never use the present subjunctive after "si". I can´t think of any exception to this rule off the top of my head.

So in an "if" statement, you only use the subjunctive if it's anything other than present tense?

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by DaGeek

So in an "if" statement, you only use the subjunctive if it's anything other than present tense?

No. "Si" clauses rarely use the subjunctive, with only a couple notable exceptions. I'm sure there is an organized list of all the possible constructions somewhere, but I'll do what I can off the top of my head.

Present indicative --> Present indicative (Si los platos están sucios,mi madre los lava)
This is a routine action, which is to say, this is just what happens if the dishes are dirty.

Present indicative --> Future (Si los platos están sucios, los lavaré/voy a lavar)
I don´t yet know if the dishes are clean or dirty, but if I find that they are dirty, I´m going to wash those little guys.

Present indicative -- Present imperative (Si los platos están sucios, lávelos.)
Like in your example, I don´t know if the dishes are dirty or not, but if they are, you had better wash them.

Imperfect indicative -- imperfect indicative (Si los platos estaban sucios, los lavaba.)
This corresponds to the first example given above, but in the past. If the plates were dirty, I´d wash them. As in, that´s just how things worked back in the day.




Now for the "si clauses" that use the subjunctive...(note that it is never the present subjunctive, and the entire feel of these clauses is quite different from the above examples.)

Imperfect subjunctive -- conditional (Si los platos estuvieran sucios, los lavaría.)
If the dishes were dirty, I´d wash them, but the implication here is that they aren´t dirty, so I´m not gonna wash them. Just saying that if they were hypothetically dirty, I would hypothetically wash them. The translation to english is the same as the above example, but you can see that the meanings are quite different.

Pluperfect subjunctive -- pluperfect subjunctive or conditional perfect subjunctive (Si los platos hubieran estado sucios, los hubiera/habría lavado)
Exact same sense as above example, but in the past. Which is to say, had the plates been dirty, I would have washed them, but it is implied here that they weren´t, so I didn´t.




And the very unimportant exception is in old sayings that still employ the future subjunctive, which according to the RAE, does not even exist as a valid grammatical form anymore. (Si a Roma fueres, haz como vieres.)

[MtlMom]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

No. "Si" clauses rarely use the subjunctive, with only a couple notable exceptions. I'm sure there is an organized list of all the possible constructions somewhere, but I'll do what I can off the top of my head.

Present indicative --> Present indicative (Si los platos están sucios,mi madre los lava)
This is a routine action, which is to say, this is just what happens if the dishes are dirty.

Present indicative --> Future (Si los platos están sucios, los lavaré/voy a lavar)
I don´t yet know if the dishes are clean or dirty, but if I find that they are dirty, I´m going to wash those little guys.

Present indicative -- Present imperative (Si los platos están sucios, lávelos.)
Like in your example, I don´t know if the dishes are dirty or not, but if they are, you had better wash them.

Imperfect indicative -- imperfect indicative (Si los platos estaban sucios, los lavaba.)
This corresponds to the first example given above, but in the past. If the plates were dirty, I´d wash them. As in, that´s just how things worked back in the day.




Now for the "si clauses" that use the subjunctive...(note that it is never the present subjunctive, and the entire feel of these clauses is quite different from the above examples.)

Imperfect subjunctive -- conditional (Si los platos estuvieran sucios, los lavaría.)
If the dishes were dirty, I´d wash them, but the implication here is that they aren´t dirty, so I´m not gonna wash them. Just saying that if they were hypothetically dirty, I would hypothetically wash them. The translation to english is the same as the above example, but you can see that the meanings are quite different.

Pluperfect subjunctive -- pluperfect subjunctive or conditional perfect subjunctive (Si los platos hubieran estado sucios, los hubiera/habría lavado)
Exact same sense as above example, but in the past. Which is to say, had the plates been dirty, I would have washed them, but it is implied here that they weren´t, so I didn´t.




And the very unimportant exception is in old sayings that still employ the future subjunctive, which according to the RAE, does not even exist as a valid grammatical form anymore. (Si a Roma fueres, haz como vieres.)

Matthew, I don't know if you are a teacher or not, but if you are not, you are missing your calling.

[DaGeek]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

No. "Si" clauses rarely use the subjunctive, with only a couple notable exceptions. I'm sure there is an organized list of all the possible constructions somewhere, but I'll do what I can off the top of my head.

Present indicative --> Present indicative (Si los platos están sucios,mi madre los lava)
This is a routine action, which is to say, this is just what happens if the dishes are dirty.

Present indicative --> Future (Si los platos están sucios, los lavaré/voy a lavar)
I don´t yet know if the dishes are clean or dirty, but if I find that they are dirty, I´m going to wash those little guys.

Present indicative -- Present imperative (Si los platos están sucios, lávelos.)
Like in your example, I don´t know if the dishes are dirty or not, but if they are, you had better wash them.

Imperfect indicative -- imperfect indicative (Si los platos estaban sucios, los lavaba.)
This corresponds to the first example given above, but in the past. If the plates were dirty, I´d wash them. As in, that´s just how things worked back in the day.




Now for the "si clauses" that use the subjunctive...(note that it is never the present subjunctive, and the entire feel of these clauses is quite different from the above examples.)

Imperfect subjunctive -- conditional (Si los platos estuvieran sucios, los lavaría.)
If the dishes were dirty, I´d wash them, but the implication here is that they aren´t dirty, so I´m not gonna wash them. Just saying that if they were hypothetically dirty, I would hypothetically wash them. The translation to english is the same as the above example, but you can see that the meanings are quite different.

Pluperfect subjunctive -- pluperfect subjunctive or conditional perfect subjunctive (Si los platos hubieran estado sucios, los hubiera/habría lavado)
Exact same sense as above example, but in the past. Which is to say, had the plates been dirty, I would have washed them, but it is implied here that they weren´t, so I didn´t.




And the very unimportant exception is in old sayings that still employ the future subjunctive, which according to the RAE, does not even exist as a valid grammatical form anymore. (Si a Roma fueres, haz como vieres.)

Wow, muchas gracias. That's an extremely helpful post. I've wondered about "if" clauses for a long time.

[Eriol]

Originally Posted by Dr. Worm

Voy a enseñar un curso de español este semestre...

Normalmente, no es recomendado utilizar Rosetta Stone junto con tu clase. Habla con tu profesor antes de combinar los dos recursos. Si te sirve, bueno, puedes hacer lo que quieras, pero primero debes dejar que tu profesor sepa lo que estás haciendo.

yo no estoy necesariamente de acuerdo con esto....creo q ambas formas te sirven para aprender...segun lo q me dicen de Rosetta Stone, utiliza un metodo de aprendizaje diferente al que se usa para los cursos ofrecidos en facultades (en general). Rosetta Stone usa imagens y sonidos para que uno aprenda y asocie palabras con imagenes...asi aprenden los nenes, y asi deberiamos aprender nosotros. Por eso muchos de los alumnos de cursos de español y otros idiomas "se graduan" y despues no hablan ni jota del idioma que supuesamente aprendieron. ES porque se estudia gramatica nada mas. Bueno que se yo, pero asi lo veo al tema jaja

[Dr. Worm]

Originally Posted by Eriol

yo no estoy necesariamente de acuerdo con esto....creo q ambas formas te sirven para aprender...segun lo q me dicen de Rosetta Stone, utiliza un metodo de aprendizaje diferente al que se usa para los cursos ofrecidos en facultades (en general). Rosetta Stone usa imagens y sonidos para que uno aprenda y asocie palabras con imagenes...asi aprenden los nenes, y asi deberiamos aprender nosotros. Por eso muchos de los alumnos de cursos de español y otros idiomas "se graduan" y despues no hablan ni jota del idioma que supuesamente aprendieron. ES porque se estudia gramatica nada mas. Bueno que se yo, pero asi lo veo al tema jaja

Con esto estoy completamente de acuerdo. Los métodos que se usan en facultades son generalmente...menos que perfectos, digamos, por la misma razón que tu has planteado. Ponen demasiado enfásis en la gramática y casi no enfásis en hablar.

Sin embargo....

Conozco a muchos profesores de idiomas en las universidades que les prohiben a sus alumnos que utilizen programas como Rosetta Stone junto con el curso. Según ellos, la combinación de los dos recursos muchas veces confunde al estudiante, porque enseñan explican las cosas en una manera tan diferente.