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Unread 08-06-2009, 01:55 AM   #1
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Question Music Piracy: Okay or not?

Let me make myself clear when I say downloading. When I say downloading I am referring to pirating and copying a CD illegally. Weather it's through Napster, Limewire, Torrents, or whatever, getting it without paying for it is what I am talking about.

As I look around many youth groups in today's America, I see many students downloading music from these sites and leaders who know about it doing nothing.

It's my belief that as Christians, we are called to hold a higher standard in living than the world holds up (namely God's perfection standard) and it's a bad witness to be saying not to steal and then steal music.

Any thoughts

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Unread 08-06-2009, 02:16 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missionsminded View Post
Let me make myself clear when I say downloading. When I say downloading I am referring to pirating and copying a CD illegally. Weather it's through Napster, Limewire, Torrents, or whatever, getting it without paying for it is what I am talking about.

As I look around many youth groups in today's America, I see many students downloading music from these sites and leaders who know about it doing nothing.

It's my belief that as Christians, we are called to hold a higher standard in living than the world holds up (namely God's perfection standard) and it's a bad witness to be saying not to steal and then steal music.

Any thoughts
It's a worse witness for a youth leader to worry about youth downloading music than worrying about, for instance, whether or not they're loving their neighbor in their high school and in their daily lives instead of contributing to marginalizing of certain outcast peers of theirs - as I was at one point. As someone who's so 'Missions Minded' I'm surprised this didn't occur to you, legalist.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 08:15 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ICTHUS View Post
As someone who's so 'Missions Minded' I'm surprised this didn't occur to you, legalist.
Wow! That seems like a horrible welcome to a new member on the board.

I would put pirating music/movies in the same vein as stealing.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 08:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by guyskankrye View Post
I would put pirating music/movies in the same vein as stealing.
Agreed.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 09:30 AM   #5
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I used to download on limewire and other sites kinda like what you mentioned, then I stopped and started using imeem. It's much better and safer. Now I'm also buying more CDs more often.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 10:43 AM   #6
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I don't do it much anymore, but I used to download the stuff that I was interested in and if I liked it, I bought the album anyway, and if I didn't it got purged almost immediately

I figure if you use it that way it benefits the record labels more than anything else, since someone else is essentially paying the bandwidth to promote their products and they still get the $$ in the end.

I haven't downloaded anything in forever because of the hassle. I won't use itunes/etc because you get crappy compressed audio, no album art, no physical media, crippled fair use rights, and it costs almost the same amount of money. fail.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 11:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyskankrye View Post
Wow! That seems like a horrible welcome to a new member on the board.

I would put pirating music/movies in the same vein as stealing.
I agree on both points.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 01:22 PM   #8
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At this point, where there are many services available where you can download music for a very small fee, it's inexcusable for Christians to download music illegally. I felt very convicted of this a few years back and stopped downloading and deleted Limewire and other file sharing services.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 01:28 PM   #9
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I don't use itunes for most of red barons reasons.

Since I quit pirating... (I download constantly, and find the term used ignorantly such as this title horribly annoying) I buy very few cds these days. Oddly, other than the argument that it is illegal, I would not have a problem with it in all honesty. I bought the music I liked but now I am exposed to far less that I like.

I take occasional gambles off of amazon's used cd section. Mostly these days I use youtube for previewing, which I cannot for the life of me figure out how it is ethically different than napster.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 01:31 PM   #10
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Ah, let me amend my previous post slightly: if downloading is done for the purpose of previewing and is immediately deleted, I don't have an issue with it.

There are, however, other ways to download music legally. Still, I just buy all my CDs. I like the physical package of it all.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 01:41 PM   #11
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There are, however, other ways to download music legally. Still, I just buy all my CDs. I like the physical package of it all.
I do like to buy cds. I don't like having to double buy, which is what itunes and stuff requires. Till they shut it down, I will be using youtube to check out bands I am interested in.

But I hate the term downloading being equated with piracy. I downloaded ubuntu on my laptop and a bunch of legal free programs. I also download my email, etc.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 01:49 PM   #12
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But I hate the term downloading being equated with piracy.
Agreed...I use iTunes religiously. Youtube too for previewing. I used to use Napster and Kaza the same way until conviction reared it's ugly head. I've deleted thousands of files (music, movies, software) off my old computer for convictions sake.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 02:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ICTHUS View Post
It's a worse witness for a youth leader to worry about youth downloading music than worrying about, for instance, whether or not they're loving their neighbor in their high school and in their daily lives instead of contributing to marginalizing of certain outcast peers of theirs - as I was at one point. As someone who's so 'Missions Minded' I'm surprised this didn't occur to you, legalist.
I find this laughable in light of this post from ICTHUS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICTHUS View Post
Maybe we prefer to create a culture which respects life through love rather than legislation, and through opposition to all things which denigrate Life - such as war and the military (BIG one for Americans and Canadians too!), poverty, euthanasia, and abortion.
But you have no opposition to theft. Worrying about a youth leader who tries to teach his students that it's wrong. Saying that loving your neighbor is a better lesson. And instead of acting respectful or loving towards the OP, you just call names. That's a fabulous witness right there.

I wonder how they define love on your planet? In mine, it includes not stealing from my neighbor, and my neighbor isn't just the person next door, but also the musician who relies on the sale of their music to feed their families, and the record company exec who also has to feed their family.

I use iTunes at times because I want the immediate gratification of having my music NOW as opposed to ordering it and waiting for it to arrive. I live about 100 miles from the nearest bit of civilization. But iTunes is a pain in the behind. Mostly, if the songs are available for download at Amazon, I'll buy there.

iTunes is also what I use to download my podcasts. I love my podcasts.

I was convicted years ago of file sharing, and like some of you have posted, I had to repent and delete everything.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 02:14 PM   #14
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I find this laughable in light of this post from ICTHUS:



But you have no opposition to theft. Worrying about a youth leader who tries to teach his students that it's wrong. Saying that loving your neighbor is a better lesson. And instead of acting respectful or loving towards the OP, you just call names. That's a fabulous witness right there.

I wonder how they define love on your planet? In mine, it includes not stealing from my neighbor, and my neighbor isn't just the person next door, but also the musician who relies on the sale of their music to feed their families, and the record company exec who also has to feed their family.

I use iTunes at times because I want the immediate gratification of having my music NOW as opposed to ordering it and waiting for it to arrive. I live about 100 miles from the nearest bit of civilization. But iTunes is a pain in the behind. Mostly, if the songs are available for download at Amazon, I'll buy there.

iTunes is also what I use to download my podcasts. I love my podcasts.

I was convicted years ago of file sharing, and like some of you have posted, I had to repent and delete everything.
How is downloading stealing? You take nothing from your neighbor. I mention this because there is a very big difference between taking something and copying it...
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Unread 08-06-2009, 02:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
I don't do it much anymore, but I used to download the stuff that I was interested in and if I liked it, I bought the album anyway, and if I didn't it got purged almost immediately

I figure if you use it that way it benefits the record labels more than anything else, since someone else is essentially paying the bandwidth to promote their products and they still get the $$ in the end.

I haven't downloaded anything in forever because of the hassle. I won't use itunes/etc because you get crappy compressed audio, no album art, no physical media, crippled fair use rights, and it costs almost the same amount of money. fail.
iTunes plus gives you DRM free Apple Lossless... I think most if not all the music on there is lossless now.
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