[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Skeeter

You have deprived someone of income they would have received had you purchased the item rather than acquiring a digital copy.

Not convinced of that really. Thats how it is supposed to work, but thats not how it seems to. In reality, the majority of artists I have known have at least at one point been in contracts where they get screwed or the company breaks contract.

Sure, there are certainly murky areas. I don't have any issue with someone getting a burnt CD from a musician. Heck, I don't see any issue with mix CDs. I don't mind at all when a musician provides mp3s of their songs available for download from their website. I love it, in fact. And I certainly have sympathy for artists who have been defrauded by a record company. I would want to check both sides of the story, of course, but there are certainly situations where a record company might be said to have given up their rights, ethically, to receive income from an artist's work. That's a sticky situation, though.

Yeah, and its one I actually have been in fairly frequently.

[Skeeter]

Originally Posted by slap_j

Not buying a record doesn't deprive anyone of a sale.

Record shops. Record companies. The iTunes store. The guy who works in the factory pressing CDs. Eventually, even the artist themselves.

Say there's a new bestseller on the shelves. I'm not terribly interested in it because it's by an author that's a bit hit or miss for me. So I don't want to buy the book, but I am a bit curious. Turns out, someone has bought the book and photocopied the entire thing and is willing to give it to me for free. Sweet! Now I can read the book that I wasn't going to buy anyways. No harm done, right?

Sorry, something about that doesn't sit right with me. If you don't want to buy the music, you don't get to have the music.

And I know plenty of people that download music instead of buying it. Yes, it's depriving someone of a sale.

[OiBoyz]

Originally Posted by Skeeter

If you don't want to buy the music, you don't get to have the music.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by Skeeter

Record shops. Record companies. The iTunes store. The guy who works in the factory pressing CDs. Eventually, even the artist themselves.

Just to be clear: You're saying that whenever I don't buy something (music, books, food, clothes, etc.) I am depriving someone of a sale? Cause there are way more things I don't buy than things I do buy. I don't buy dynamite for instance. Never have.

No harm done, right? Sorry, something about that doesn't sit right with me.

I'm curious about the answer to that question. I understand your feelings, and that's absolutely fine, but it seems a bit orthogonal.

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Skeeter

Sorry, something about that doesn't sit right with me. If you don't want to buy the music, you don't get to have the music.

Exactly.

[scarlet.starlet]

My question is this: why is it that so many people who would NEVER steal a car, NEVER shoplift a pair of jeans, NEVER take jewelry from someone's dresser...these people (myself among them) do not feel the slightest bit guilty for downloading music illegally?

I've never even felt tempted to commit what I would consider theft. If I don't feel like I'm stealing, how can I be? After all, I've got a conscience just like everyone else.

Does anyone have an explanation?

[Rainer.]

Out of curiosity, does anyone other than me think that music is way expensive?

When I go out to buy a big artist's newest CD, it costs $20 for literally a couple pieces of plastic, when I can get a local indie artist's LP for $5-7ish, and all the money actually goes back to the artist rather than the label.

Not exactly on topic, but I still usually feel rather ripped off when I browse the CDs at the store.

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by scarlet.starlet

My question is this: why is it that so many people who would NEVER steal a car, NEVER shoplift a pair of jeans, NEVER take jewelry from someone's dresser...these people (myself among them) do not feel the slightest bit guilty for downloading music illegally?

I've never even felt tempted to commit what I would consider theft. If I don't feel like I'm stealing, how can I be? After all, I've got a conscience just like everyone else.

Does anyone have an explanation?

Because you've done it so many times, and have rationalized it so many times, and so many people around you both do it and rationalize that it doesnt bother you.


I used to be bad about lieing. I could lie with a straight face, and not feel guilty about it, and never give it a second thought.
Why?

Not because it wasnt wrong. It was definately wrong. But I had grown so used to doing it, and had gotten so good at rationalizing why I had lied in a situation where the truth would have been better, that it just didnt bother me anymore.

Thankfully, Im much better in this area now than I was even as recently as a year ago.

Its not about "not feeling guilty" about it.

Is it right, or is it wrong?

The answer to that question is all that is relevant.

How you feel about it is completely irrelevant to that issue.



*edit*

To the person who gave me that uc: A persons feelings about whether a thing is immoral or moral are infact irrelevant. If it is immoral it is immoral regardless of how you feel about it.

Paul didnt tell the church in Corinth that aslong as they didnt feel convicted of their sexual immorality that they were fine, no, he called immorality what it was and instructed them to stop it.

If that is arrogance, or foolishness, then so be it. I am both arrogant, and a fool.

And not dismissing the things I do that I know are wrong, I am not saying I have it all figured out, or that Im perfect (which, I am sure you will try to say that I do, as you have accused me of in the past, falsely). You may think what you will, but I stand by what I have said.

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Out of curiosity, does anyone other than me think that music is way expensive?

When I go out to buy a big artist's newest CD, it costs $20 for literally a couple pieces of plastic, when I can get a local indie artist's LP for $5-7ish, and all the money actually goes back to the artist rather than the label.

Not exactly on topic, but I still usually feel rather ripped off when I browse the CDs at the store.

I dont.

Usually when I buy a cd its from an artist I know and like most of their music. I dont mind paying the 20 bucks for a new cd. I guess Im weird. Spending money on something I care about just doesnt bother me. Id rather pay for it than take it.

[OiBoyz]

Originally Posted by slap_j

Just to be clear: You're saying that whenever I don't buy something (music, books, food, clothes, etc.) I am depriving someone of a sale? Cause there are way more things I don't buy than things I do buy. I don't buy dynamite for instance. Never have.

But if you don't buy those things, you also don't get to use them.

I've never even felt tempted to commit what I would consider theft. If I don't feel like I'm stealing, how can I be? After all, I've got a conscience just like everyone else.

Obviously you're not convicted by it if you go by what you think of it.

Prov 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Prov 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by OiBoyz

But if you don't buy those things, you also don't get to use them.

Sure. But that wasn't the contention.

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by slap_j

Sure. But that wasn't the contention.

Except you are saying its ok to use something that you didnt pay for, even though legally you are supposed to pay for its use when the producer of that item/digital information says it has a certain value that you must pay for use.

[Sean.thomson]

When you buy a CD that's put out by a big label, you're paying everybody at the big label. When you buy a CD from a smaller artist, you're paying just the artist (unless they're doing some consignment thingy)...

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter

Except you are saying its ok to use something that you didnt pay for, even though legally you are supposed to pay for its use when the producer of that item/digital information says it has a certain value that you must pay for use.

I think you ought to go back and reread because this isn't close.

[Sean.thomson]

Originally Posted by slap_j

I think you ought to go back and reread because this isn't close.

Just out of curiosity: What are your views on downloading movies that are playing in the theater?