[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by nolidad

But then again if you spent time watching his show or listening to his radio show, you would discover that he documents all his accusations about Comrade Obama and the 32 + CZARS he has appointed (cirumventing the senatorial approval process.)

Yes. I remember you making a similar complaint when Bush did recess appointments on people that Congress had already clearly stated they would not approve (what was that UN envoy's name), or when he appointed one of Rumsfield's college buddies to FEMA (that turned out well), or hired Bektel, Enron, and the like without bidding (guess who sat on those boards). Did you know there was an Exxon oil tanker called the Condelessa?

Of course I don't remember that, because it didn't happen. You supported the president who circumvented the UN approval process for millitary action in Iraq after learning he would loose the vote... who then used a UN sanction that the UN said didn't authorize force as an authorization of force.

I think you supported Bush because he was "us" and oppose Obama because he's "them".

On a related note, I've stopped watching the news these past few weeks.

I am so stressed from the campaign of outright lies that I just can't.

There are well funded movements to plant people in "town hall meetings" to shout these lies at the top of their lungs. To deliberately mislead the public and deliberately disrupt the public's chance to actually ask questions. They heckle the senators.

Whatever I thought of Bush, I would not have booed him as he walked on stage.

I'm not saying the left isn't guilty of bad behavior; and I'm not calling the governmental plans perfect. I'm not even calling them particularly good... just an improvement.

But it seems, as long as Beck will say a lie, quote a watcher emailing that lie back to him, hear his lie repeated in a town-hall and then air that is proof that the lie he started is true... and as long as people will repeat that here... well, we'll never accomplish anything.

It seems pretty much like deliberate sabotage; and while I don't care about the left-right dem/rep political warring: it's my life, and my childrens' future that is being damaged while little people jockey for position. I'm pissed.

Cash for clunkers was to get people buying cars. It worked. Was it a good idea? I don't know. It seems it could be good if it's timed properly to be a start to an economy moving up; otherwise all it would seem likely to do is take a long period of car sales and compress it. Sales will be lost next year because those people bought new cars this year. That's not unavoidable, but surely a pitfall.

[Fandrew]

So, if people are trading in Pickup trucks, that are then disposed of, can I sell my truck soon for a higher price than before, because it's now a more of a rarity?

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by JayCarrFan

So, if people are trading in Pickup trucks, that are then disposed of, can I sell my truck soon for a higher price than before, because it's now a more of a rarity?

ha...that is an interesting question.

[AlphaSigma]

Maybe you'll be taxed for continuing the cycle of just selling your clunker to someone else. You must crush it!

[nolidad]

There are well funded movements to plant people in "town hall meetings" to shout these lies at the top of their lungs. To deliberately mislead the public and deliberately disrupt the public's chance to actually ask questions. They heckle the senators.

Well the balls in your court-- list the movements and the funding and how they are so great at organizing nationwide heckling of senators and how they even get democrats to heckle democratic senators.

I think you supported Bush because he was "us" and oppose Obama because he's "them".

I know I supported Bush because the alternative was Kerry- and I live in teh state he has helped to turn into a semo socialist nightmare. But I backed Bush far less than you imagine me too.

Yes. I remember you making a similar complaint when Bush did recess appointments on people that Congress had already clearly stated they would not approve (what was that UN envoy's name),

Well at least Boltons appointment was done because Ried kept the senate from voting on a UN ambassador- and Bush used a legal procedure. Show me where in our REd Book (oops my bad that is the old USSR) where presidents get to appoint CZARS to help run the central collective (oops my bad again that is the USASSR again ) without any advise and consent from the Senate-- recess appts when the senate is not even letting your candidates get an up or down vote is legal- Comrade Love Czars aren't found in our constitution.

Whatever I thought of Bush, I would not have booed him as he walked on stage.

Mayber you wouldn't but Reid called him an idiot on national television, Pelosi called him a criiminal on national television, and the list of accusations the left printed, blogged, and voiced on TV and radio would fill several pages on this thread.

These folks are shouting down senators who voted to exempt themselves from the health care bill they are ramming down the citizens throats. The more they read it the less they like it- this bill is now less than 50% popular by all the polls.

I'm not saying the left isn't guilty of bad behavior; and I'm not calling the governmental plans perfect. I'm not even calling them particularly good... just an improvement.

I am sorry but th eultimate nationalization of the US heaslth care (Obama even said so on video in front of a gathering of ACORN and SEIU). Also with some of his CZARS promoting ideas like sterilants in the nations water supplies, forced abortions, age tested health rationing (the young and the old being denied limited testing because they are the least productive) is not an improvement this country needs to live with. And it won't because many of our citizens would die!

But it seems, as long as Beck will say a lie, quote a watcher emailing that lie back to him, hear his lie repeated in a town-hall and then air that is proof that the lie he started is true... and as long as people will repeat that here... well, we'll never accomplish anything.

I take it you watch nearly none of Beck-- He documents his accusations straight form Obama and his cronies mouths and accounting statements. His exposing the deep connection between Obama/ ACORN/SEIU/TIDES foundation/ APOLLOS Group/ SOROS was irrefutably documented from the orgs themselves.

It was Beck who exposed the Cash for Clunkers and the govt. making dealers cede ownership of their computers to the fed if th ey agreed to teh terms. It go so much press that DOT had to pull the statement off ithe web site.

It was Beck and his constitutional watchdogs who have exposed Comrade Obama and his email flood to leftist orgs. anmd the mailing list he gathered from his campaign to report any who bad mouth his health plan. As soon as one name is emailed- Obama will then be guilty of a federal crime violating
sc552 (I think thats right) which makes it a federal crime for any president to creatre a file on any citizen ( passed in th eNIxon years when he went a little too paranoid.) So Obama made an appeal for American citizens to spy and report on American citizens--whats next?? Teh creation of Gulags for dissidents?

[nolidad]

From Ridleys own:

The different is that these people aren't complicit in the assassination of people with whom they diagree.

I assume you are talking character assasination and I can only say-- you must be talking about people who aren't newsmakers wioth the same names- cause these leftists went after Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and almost all conservatives with a hate filled vendetta.

I have no idea. Saying he deliberately lied would suggest Beck has a grasp on reality, something I'm not entirely willing to grant. Simply fact checking the claim (as a normal, non-'entertainment' journalist is required to do by his/her editor and ethical standards, something Beck hasn't even shown to posess) would reveal that basing a news story off an e-mail chain letter is a very bad idea indeed. And you can't get to the "dealer side" via cars.gov anyway, so the entire premise of Beck's argument was false. False false false false false. To get something this enormously wrong, one must either be stupid, evil or both, with or without intention. This is, after all, the same guy who called the president a 'racist' with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, so there's pretty clearly no boundary he's willing to cross for ratings.

Well I watched it live on his show and saw the screen so unless it was all made up and unless DOT was complicit in lying with Beck when they publ;ished a letter saying they removed that section from the dealer side then I guess the conspiracy is vast.

I guess double and triple documenting the illegalities of ACORN/SEIU/ TIDES foundation as well as qouting with reference speeches form OBama cronies is not enough. He even is willing to provide email documentatrion to earnest people.

I'd agree, but since it's revenue neutral.... Again, I have to ask... A successful program that does exactly what it's supposed to do, and we're killing it because of ideology?

Well now that th ehouse and Senate approved borrowing 3 billion more dollars for cash for clunkers-- how is this revenue neutral??? Where are we getting the 4 billion dollars from?? WE get a blip in GDP fromthe purchases but then car sales drop further, because we speeded up future sales, many of these folks will curtail other purchases because they bought a vehicle that they marfinally could afford (NY Times) so they go in debt and postpone other purchases. Used car prices go up because we remove about 1 million form the resale market- futrher reducing peopels purchasing power. How is this all a good deal?? And since when did the fed get authorization to become the new Nation Auto USA?? (Oh yeah I forgot our 35% stake we now have in GM) Sorry as nice as it is that teh govt. is giving folks up to $4,500 to trade in an old car-- it has no business in the car business.

I don't know why he does it. I would not even begin to delve into the fevered imagination that is the world Glen Beck's reality without some serious pharmacological help... for me.

Well that is why he is now number two behind Oreilly on TV-- because he speaks to the common folk and shows them the truth and then backs it up with facts.

I would love to see the suppossed list- with the documentation where Beck intentionally made stuff up on national television. Not just an accusatory list- but qoutes from him and then the documentation that proves he lied.

[nolidad]

For those who think that Glenn Beck was making this stuff up aboput the fed taking control of a dealers computer here is a site:

LiveLeak.com - Cash for Clunkers Rebate Program Allows Government to Take Control of Your Computer

Beck Exposes 'Cash for Clunkers' Language Giving Feds Authority to Take Control of Computers | NewsBusters.org

[JerryLove]

For proof that nolidad is again lying (copying lies at least)
PolitiFact | Is Big Brother snooping on Cash for Clunkers site?

A blog and a location called "live leaks"? You are getting lazy.

So you've repeated one Beck lie after another, even though I keep showing you that they are entirely untrue? I mean 5-10 times in a row might be honest mistakes, but you've been shown over and over that it's untrue and you keep repeating the same sources as gospel. That's why you yourself are lying, not just mistaken.

And, of course, you know full well of sites like Politifact, you've been to the site in the last three days. But you ignored an easy way to fact-check your claim and instead put some effort into finding the fringe sites that would repeat your lie... and this isn't the first time you've done this this week.

Why do you insist on bearing such false witness?

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by nolidad

I assume you are talking character assasination and I can only say-- you must be talking about people who aren't newsmakers wioth the same names- cause these leftists went after Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and almost all conservatives with a hate filled vendetta.

No, actually, had you followed the link you would have noticed that it was people who actually killed people because of being liberal. Jim David Adkinsson shot 9 people, and killed two of the nine in a unitarian church in my hometown. He killed those people because they were liberals who were, in his mind, destroying the country. In his home were books by Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. Don't tell me that the wackos in this country aren't being fed by the right wing media people on Fox and the radio.

Rather, do tell me. Then go tell the families of the 9 people hurt by the people who are 'just entertainers.'

[nolidad]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

No, actually, had you followed the link you would have noticed that it was people who actually killed people because of being liberal. Jim David Adkinsson shot 9 people, and killed two of the nine in a unitarian church in my hometown. He killed those people because they were liberals who were, in his mind, destroying the country. In his home were books by Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. Don't tell me that the wackos in this country aren't being fed by the right wing media people on Fox and the radio.

Rather, do tell me. Then go tell the families of the 9 people hurt by the people who are 'just entertainers.'

I hope you do not believe that Savage, Oreilly and Hannity compelled this man to kill. YOu mentioned 3 of th emore popular media people. They have millions of people who watch and listen to them. Because 1 unstable person goes out and shoots nine people and he likes conservative views does not make conservatism complicit in his assassination. If that is true shall we dig up all the murders taken place by liberals and declare liberalism the cause for these assassins doing their dastardly deeds.

I persdonally know that men like Hannity, Beck, Oreilly and even the very extreme Savage decry and condemn people doing violence to abortionists, and those they disagree with politically. To even to implicitly make them complicit is very bad form.

[nolidad]

For proof that nolidad is again lying (copying lies at least)
PolitiFact | Is Big Brother snooping on Cash for Clunkers site?

From the poltifact site:

The site did contain language that suggested the government could get into the user's computer files. But it was only on the part of the site accessed by dealers completing Cash for Clunkers transactions, not the general public.

On Aug. 3, the Transportation Department took the language off the site, and we think they deserve some of the blame for the confusion here.

But we ruled Guilfoyle's warnings about Big Brother worming its way into the home computers of an unsuspecting public False.

It would appear they had access to the same side of the CARS site that Glenn Beck did. I wonder why they did not have the courage to publish what they discovered on the site before the transportation dept. pulled the language off the website?

At least Glenn Beck had the integrity enough to show a computer screen from the dealer side of cars, print it on the TV screen for all the viewers to see, and then interview several car dealers who verified the statement as true. And Mr. Beck did openly declare it was the dealers side, he never even implied it was on the consumer side. Not once! I know I watrch him every day I can.

I wonder why the St. Petersburg Times would not publish what they say ONLY SUGGESTED the govt. MAY have access to a dealers computer? This is the kind of things the liberal side of the media absolutely loves!! It would have slammed a conservative media person openly and with REAL and not contrived EVIDENCE that they lie on air! But they didn't print the dealer side stuff.

With president Obama and his aggressive stance in squelching false information aboutr his plans, I wonder why we haven't heard and seem a report from DOT denouncing Beck and th eothers as spreading false information.

If they lied-- let the real words from the web site be published here. EVIDENCE- not just the opinion of a liberal paper w/o showing goes far to disprove false info.

If Beck lied openly on national television I have no problem apologizing for furhtering that lie, but the wieght of evidence lies with his reporting of it.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by nolidad

From the poltifact site:



It would appear they had access to the same side of the CARS site that Glenn Beck did. I wonder why they did not have the courage to publish what they discovered on the site before the transportation dept. pulled the language off the website?

At least Glenn Beck had the integrity enough to show a computer screen from the dealer side of cars, print it on the TV screen for all the viewers to see, and then interview several car dealers who verified the statement as true. And Mr. Beck did openly declare it was the dealers side, he never even implied it was on the consumer side. Not once! I know I watrch him every day I can.

I wonder why the St. Petersburg Times would not publish what they say ONLY SUGGESTED the govt. MAY have access to a dealers computer? This is the kind of things the liberal side of the media absolutely loves!! It would have slammed a conservative media person openly and with REAL and not contrived EVIDENCE that they lie on air! But they didn't print the dealer side stuff.

With president Obama and his aggressive stance in squelching false information aboutr his plans, I wonder why we haven't heard and seem a report from DOT denouncing Beck and th eothers as spreading false information.

If they lied-- let the real words from the web site be published here. EVIDENCE- not just the opinion of a liberal paper w/o showing goes far to disprove false info.

If Beck lied openly on national television I have no problem apologizing for furhtering that lie, but the wieght of evidence lies with his reporting of it.

I don't know if Beck intentionally lied, or if he's just lazy. He tells people, "don't do this at home, this is the dealer site" at the beginning of the segment, then he and Kim go on about how scary this is and how the government can follow you for the rest of your life if you go on the site from your home. The issue I have with this is that it's never really explained if it's really possible to log into the dealer side of the cars.gov website from home. If all I tuned into was the segment with Kim and Glen, I would have thought that this was a major problem with the cars.gov site in general. The reality is that it involves a portion of the site that would not have benefited me at all and that I probably would not have even been able to access.

[redbaron]

Cash for Clunkers is interesting, but honestly, it's costing a ton, and all it's doing is encouraging people to entertain more debt, which is great, if you're an idiot.

I think people forget that debt is part of what got us into this giant mess, and more debt is not going to help clean it out.

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

No, actually, had you followed the link you would have noticed that it was people who actually killed people because of being liberal. Jim David Adkinsson shot 9 people, and killed two of the nine in a unitarian church in my hometown. He killed those people because they were liberals who were, in his mind, destroying the country. In his home were books by Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. Don't tell me that the wackos in this country aren't being fed by the right wing media people on Fox and the radio.

Rather, do tell me. Then go tell the families of the 9 people hurt by the people who are 'just entertainers.'

So Marilyn Manson and video games were responsible for Columbine/etc too right?

Let's jump right to the most intellectually dishonest argument we can. Would you like to Godwin the thread while you're at it, or is that too far even for you?

Honestly, from your regular posts, I didn't expect something this weak, really. There are so many more interesting ways that you can deal with public figures rather than trying to prop up some correlation = causation argument based on a couple books. J.D. Salinger is responsible for John Lennon's death too right?

[nolidad]

don't know if Beck intentionally lied, or if he's just lazy. He tells people, "don't do this at home, this is the dealer site" at the beginning of the segment, then he and Kim go on about how scary this is and how the government can follow you for the rest of your life if you go on the site from your home. The issue I have with this is that it's never really explained if it's really possible to log into the dealer side of the cars.gov website from home. If all I tuned into was the segment with Kim and Glen, I would have thought that this was a major problem with the cars.gov site in general. The reality is that it involves a portion of the site that would not have benefited me at all and that I probably would not have even been able to access.

If you are a dealer or car salesmen you can access the site from any computer because it si code access. Then the govt caqn go into your computer atr home and browse through your files and reprot you to any govt. institution both domestic and foreign. This is scary Stuff!!!!! How would you like ot have private sdtuff on your computer available to the govt. of Spaiun, England Germany without your knowledge or permission? While it is highly unlikely- the fact that they put that in th edisclosure is just too much!.

Whether it affects private individuals (which it doesn't except it opens all the personal info you gave to the dealer to purchase a car available to the govt. without your permission). This is just too much govt. intrusion into private lives and businesses. If Bush did this he would have been hung by the yardarms! Look at all the vile things Bush was charged with when he went and spied on foreigners who were suspected of being terrorist by tapping into their phone calls-- if the NSA computers detected preprogrammed anomalies in the calls. The same people who called Bush a traitor are calling Obama a hero and this program gives the govt. far more intrusive power into more peoples lives than Bushes spying program ever did.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by nolidad

If you are a dealer or car salesmen you can access the site from any computer because it si code access. Then the govt caqn go into your computer atr home and browse through your files and reprot you to any govt. institution both domestic and foreign. This is scary Stuff!!!!! How would you like ot have private sdtuff on your computer available to the govt. of Spaiun, England Germany without your knowledge or permission? While it is highly unlikely- the fact that they put that in th edisclosure is just too much!.

Whether it affects private individuals (which it doesn't except it opens all the personal info you gave to the dealer to purchase a car available to the govt. without your permission). This is just too much govt. intrusion into private lives and businesses. If Bush did this he would have been hung by the yardarms! Look at all the vile things Bush was charged with when he went and spied on foreigners who were suspected of being terrorist by tapping into their phone calls-- if the NSA computers detected preprogrammed anomalies in the calls. The same people who called Bush a traitor are calling Obama a hero and this program gives the govt. far more intrusive power into more peoples lives than Bushes spying program ever did.

man, what are they putting in your kool-aide? I want some of it!