[Art]

Originally Posted by mattslope

I was going to shut up. I scrolled through with great restraint until I saw this:
No. Sit in a new Toyota. Pick one in the same price range and class. Then sit in a GM product. Repeat this process for a new Ford. Although the drivetrains may be of equal quality between brands, the Toyota will have a far nicer level of fit and finish. Things like HVAC controls, dash board materials, gaps and vents will be of much higher quality. I did this myself Friday, and let me tell you, I was dismayed by the level of American build standards (Chevy Malibu, Ford Fusion, and Toyota Camry; each in cloth interiors).

Bear in mind that all Toyotas sold in the USA (minus the Prius, which is still built in Japan) are built in the USA. Calling them imports is akin to calling a Mexican built Focus a domestic.

All that said, a FWD vehicle with more than 250 horses will display torque steer, understeer and or wheel hop at an unacceptable level. When you approach that level of horsepower, aforementioned negative tendancies will still pop up, but not at as high a level as to be dangerous.

So, a supercharged Cobalt? Sure, provided you keep the revs low and keep out of corners. At that point, why not buy a base model Cobalt?

I spent several hundred miles behind the wheel of a 2010 Ford Fusion recently, and I disagree with you. Yes, I agree about GM vehicles, but the fusion was fantastic. I was very impressed in many ways. It is not a luxury car, but the fit and finish seems quite nice to me. Toyotas are nice, but I don't think they are that far ahead of what Ford is doing right now.

[mulletman]

In my recent experience, Toyota is lagging behind Honda in the fit/finish department. At least with the lower end vehicles.

[scared2mosh]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

Ah, nice. Although this sort of activity hurts the company.....

true, but how awesome is owning 30 corvettes in your lifetime? (and a Danzi, an airplane, a crapload of other cars and trucks, several snowmobiles/atvs/motorcycles) Basically he had a good job and didnt marry till he was 43

I think it might just be that they'd have to start from scratch, and they'd be way too far behind to be competitive.

true, but a corvette inspired motorcycle would be BA

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by scared2mosh

ps you have to admit though that domestic cars have improved in recent years, and that they are continuing to improve. just saying... although Obama is probably going to ruin them before they have a chance to make up for their mistakes.

Originally Posted by Art

I spent several hundred miles behind the wheel of a 2010 Ford Fusion recently, and I disagree with you. Yes, I agree about GM vehicles, but the fusion was fantastic. I was very impressed in many ways. It is not a luxury car, but the fit and finish seems quite nice to me. Toyotas are nice, but I don't think they are that far ahead of what Ford is doing right now.

I agree that "domestics" have come a long way. The fit and finish on GMs, Fords and Chryslers is far better than just a decade ago. Still, Toyota, Honda and Nissan are regularly producing vehicles with better interiors than the "domestics." And I'm not bringing up drivetrains, structural rigidity, suspension design, steering feel and braking because I've yet to drive a "domestic" that can touch Toyota, Honda or Nissan in those categories.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by scared2mosh

true, but a corvette inspired motorcycle would be BA

Meh.... big engine + motorcycle = ineffective. If they can build it with close to a hundred horses, and keep the dry weight for the entire thing under 375, then I'll be impressed. When it comes to motorcycles, it's my opinion that RPM's and horsepower are king. Torque is kind of not all that relevant. At least for road bikes anyway.

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

Meh.... big engine + motorcycle = ineffective. If they can build it with close to a hundred horses, and keep the dry weight for the entire thing under 375, then I'll be impressed. When it comes to motorcycles, it's my opinion that RPM's and horsepower are king. Torque is kind of not all that relevant. At least for road bikes anyway.

I hear you. I rode a Yamaha R6 a few years ago, and was shocked when I looked down and saw that I was a approaching a 25 mph corner at 90 mph. Horsepower + RPM = Surprising Speeds. Conversely, when I rode Jerry's 1200 Sportster, the torque set me back in the saddle and I felt I was going 1,000 mph until I looked down and saw I was doing 35 mph. Torque + Motorcycle = No more speeding tickets.

[scared2mosh]

Kawasaki ninja FTW