Swearing

rock_show_host · 06-14-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OiBoyz

Ok, then we agree. I think.

Indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OiBoyz

It does?

Absolutely.

"I f****** hate this assignment."
"F*** you."
"I don't give a f***."
"For f***'s sake."
"That was a f****** amazing movie."
"I hope I don't f*** up that move again at my dance recital."
"F***, I stubbed my toe!"

Just a few examples, but the word is used differently in all of them. And to me, only the second example would be sinful, for the same reason that "go to hell" is -- it's a curse.

rock_show_host · 06-14-2009, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OiBoyz

And how do you suggest we discuss in a closed topic? Or do you think we shouldn't be allowed to talk about it simply because it's been done in the past?

If that's the case, there's no point in trying to discuss anything. There is nothing new under the sun, after all.

I think he's just having a chuckle over how frequently this tends to come up -- and how much I've already started repeating myself.

OiBoyz · 06-14-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

And to me, only the second example would be sinful, for the same reason that "go to hell" is -- it's a curse.

Or an invitation.

**Rainer.** · 06-14-2009, 01:22 AM

Back to the OP's question...

I never liked these debates over whether this or that is sinful (even though I know this is a "Theology Forum" made specifically for discussion of these types of things

) since the condition of sin has never truly been a set of actions, but rather a condition of the heart, which the actions betray.

I'm reminded of the old song that goes "They will know that we are Christians by our love..." I don't think Paul meant for us to draw up a list of words we shouldn't say when he said "obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking"; that stinks of legalism, and that's not what the message of Christ is all about. The message of Christ was to love our neighbors. And we should speak in a way that uplifts those around us.

Sometimes being brash and "impolite" might be the way to go, if it helps you forge that human connection.

...but if anyone must, I won't stop them from arguing.

rock_show_host · 06-14-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer.

I never liked these debates over whether this or that is sinful (even though I know this is a "Theology Forum" made specifically for discussion of these types of things

) since the condition of sin has never truly been a set of actions, but rather a condition of the heart, which the actions betray.

The reason I think it's important (and why I will debate it till I'm blue in the face) is that I don't believe swearing to be sinful, and I don't like seeing Christians wrongfully accused of sin.

Quote:

I'm reminded of the old song that goes "They will know that we are Christians by our love..." I don't think Paul meant for us to draw up a list of words we shouldn't say when he said "obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking"; that stinks of legalism, and that's not what the message of Christ is all about. The message of Christ was to love our neighbors. And we should speak in a way that uplifts those around us.

I agree, and I think this is what Paul is talking about in Ephesians 4:29:

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Unwholesome doesn't seem to be defined here as a list of sounds or phonetic symbols, but as the opposite of what we're commanded to do: using our speech to be helpful and build up others according to their needs. A cuss word can be (and often is) used to build someone up.

A friend of mine was recently upset after he gave a musical performance and some obnoxious people told him he was talentless. I told him I thought that was bull****, because I think he is talented. Of course, I could have substituted a number of other phrases there -- "that's wrong," "that's ridiculous," "that's stupid," "that's a load of crap," "that's insane" -- but I know my friend, and none of those would have had the same effect. My choice of a stronger word let him know just how adamantly I wanted to contradict what he'd been told. To me, according to Paul, my use of a swear word there wasn't unwholesome at all, because according to my friend's needs, it was actually a more helpful, beneficial word than any "clean" substitute would have been.

**tmlfan123** · 06-14-2009, 11:52 AM

I'm sorry if I resurrected an old topic but I did look back and didn't see a swearing thread listed. I may have just missed it.

fenderguy962 · 06-14-2009, 12:07 PM

I agree with everything rock_show_host has said thus far.

**Rainer.** · 06-14-2009, 01:22 PM

The search function is your friend!

http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t168478/
http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t164625/
http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t156814/
http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t149109/
http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t140263/

Etc.

**tmlfan123** · 06-14-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer.

The search function is your friend!

Haha yeah I literally just used the search function for the first time today - I can be a little slow like that sometimes

**redbaron** · 06-15-2009, 03:44 PM

as Jon already posted a long list of old threads. Here's my take.

Inference is a huge part of what the word means. "darn it" is no better than "damn it" (not sure if that'll be censored out)

Just as "oh my gosh" and "oh my god" really have no difference in meaning, rather you're just substituting with a word that sounds less swear-y.

To me, it's all in the way it's said. I've had room-mates where the standard greeting was "hey f-ers, i'm home" which wasn't offensive because of the meaning behind it.

The thing I find most grating whether used by myself or someone else is things like JC or G-D it because unless you're actually discussing Jesus, or asking God to actually damn something, the meaning is almost never good.

That being said, it also depends on your audience. I wouldn't use perceived profanity in church, or around people that I knew it bothered.

I've chosen to look at inferred meaning rather than being jumpy about profanity because I hang out with a lot of unsaved people and I want to actually be able to converse with them. In my experience, there's nothing that will kill a conversation with someone who is unsaved faster than the perceived "look down the nose" as it were. Not that I'm suggesting we ignore sin just to talk to unsaved-sinners, but moreso that we not make big issues out of trivial things and as such blow our opportunity to positively influence someones path to salvation.

rock_show_host · 06-15-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

I've chosen to look at inferred meaning rather than being jumpy about profanity because I hang out with a lot of unsaved people and I want to actually be able to converse with them. In my experience, there's nothing that will kill a conversation with someone who is unsaved faster than the perceived "look down the nose" as it were. Not that I'm suggesting we ignore sin just to talk to unsaved-sinners, but moreso that we not make big issues out of trivial things and as such blow our opportunity to positively influence someones path to salvation.

Amen.

mulletman · 06-15-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OiBoyz

And how do you suggest we discuss in a closed topic? Or do you think we shouldn't be allowed to talk about it simply because it's been done in the past?

If that's the case, there's no point in trying to discuss anything. There is nothing new under the sun, after all.

Meh, I don't think that was his intent. The fact of the matter, is that the discussion always ends the same way eventually. A link to a past thread might serve as a read-through for most of the arguments likely to be presented on a given topic.

**tmlfan123** · 06-15-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

I've chosen to look at inferred meaning rather than being jumpy about profanity because I hang out with a lot of unsaved people and I want to actually be able to converse with them. In my experience, there's nothing that will kill a conversation with someone who is unsaved faster than the perceived "look down the nose" as it were. Not that I'm suggesting we ignore sin just to talk to unsaved-sinners, but moreso that we not make big issues out of trivial things and as such blow our opportunity to positively influence someones path to salvation.

Are you saying that you swear around non-Christians to be able to "converse" with them? Or are you saying you don't look down your nose at them when they do?

**redbaron** · 06-15-2009, 09:23 PM

The latter, but I'm not going to say something like "fiddlesticks" in replace for the homonym for "crap" since it doesn't bother me and it's appropriate in the context.

***Pauler*** · 06-15-2009, 09:31 PM

i think redbaron is right...context is key. the apostle paul himself used the word s***...in greek translated skubala (his description of the word is right on and concurs with the seminary professors that i was taught under as well)

there are many more vulgar references in the Bible...and not just words, but descriptive actions and scenarios. biblical times, just as the present...is real life.

does that mean i say f this and s that...no...its just about the context of it all.