[mattslope]

I set my aspirations incredibly low myself. Dreaming of riding in a car with a solid rear axle is attainable to everyone except those in Antarctica. And only then if the boats won't take you to some place with roads.

[Art]

Originally Posted by mattslope

I set my aspirations incredibly low myself. Dreaming of riding in a car with a solid rear axle is attainable to everyone except those in Antarctica. And only then if the boats won't take you to some place with roads.

I've decided that you are unfairly biased against Mustangs. my roommate's GT handles quite a bit better than my Subaru. Which, to be honest, kind of ticks me off.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

It's only logical:

GT350 = race car

Civic = shopping cart target

Well yes, but it says a little something about the field of cars when Shelby Mustangs are the most common car around...

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by Art

I've decided that you are unfairly biased against Mustangs.

It may be unfair. Here's a few of my problems:
IRS is a better suspension layout than SRA (in terms of ride quality, unsprung mass, lateral motion, camber, toe, etc)
The only benefits of SRA involve straight line acceleration (strength) and cost (for the manufacturer)
Why would a manufacturer offer IRS at all when SRA is less expensive to produce?

my roommate's GT handles quite a bit better than my Subaru. Which, to be honest, kind of ticks me off.

That's more a function the specific car than the chassis layout.

[Wolvrin704]

Originally Posted by mattslope

It may be unfair. Here's a few of my problems:
IRS is a better suspension layout than SRA (in terms of ride quality, unsprung mass, lateral motion, camber, toe, etc)
The only benefits of SRA involve straight line acceleration (strength) and cost (for the manufacturer)
Why would a manufacturer offer IRS at all when SRA is less expensive to produce? That's more a function the specific car than the chassis layout.

Ford uses a solid rear axle because most Mustang buyers prefer it for the 1/4 mile. The Mustang is made to be an unfinished canvas as the average owner will usually sink a couple $K into them in mods.

The new 2010 Mustang despite having a solid rear end is just about on par with the new Camaro which has IRS.

Those Eleanor kits look nice but it doesn't make the car any faster or better than any other GT. Personally I'd rather have a GT500 if I were to get new one or wait until 2011 when the 400hp DOHC 5.0 comes out. Not sure yet if its a 2 valve or 4 valve engine, I've heard both.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by Wolvrin704

Ford uses a solid rear axle because most Mustang buyers prefer it for the 1/4 mile. The Mustang is made to be an unfinished canvas as the average owner will usually sink a couple $K into them in mods.

Meh, IRS can be just as capable in the quarter.... I'd say Ford makes them that way because it's cheaper for them to produce. The average Mustang owner leaves their car mostly stock, judging by the Mustangs I see on the road.

Originally Posted by Wolvrin704

Those Eleanor kits look nice but it doesn't make the car any faster or better than any other GT. Personally I'd rather have a GT500 if I were to get new one or wait until 2011 when the 400hp DOHC 5.0 comes out. Not sure yet if its a 2 valve or 4 valve engine, I've heard both.

400 horses from a N/A 5.0? Now they're talking.... Although if it ends up being DOHC and a 2 valve engine, that will go down in history for being one of the all-time greatest wastes of potential ever.

[el cabong]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

Meh, IRS can be just as capable in the quarter.... I'd say Ford makes them that way because it's cheaper for them to produce. The average Mustang owner leaves their car mostly stock, judging by the Mustangs I see on the road.

IRS can be. IRS can also break easier. More parts.

I try not to be too much of a fanboy. SRA's are cheaper. And I think more reliable for their target buyers/owners. I think if every Mustang had been equipped with IRS there would be huge "reliability" issues with Mustangs. Just because people abuse them, and would be splitting half-shafts all over the place. Which has been known to happen with the 03/04 Cobras.

I try to take my car for what it is. Cheap and fun.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by El Cabong

IRS can be. IRS can also break easier. More parts.

I try not to be too much of a fanboy. SRA's are cheaper. And I think more reliable for their target buyers/owners. I think if every Mustang had been equipped with IRS there would be huge "reliability" issues with Mustangs. Just because people abuse them, and would be splitting half-shafts all over the place. Which has been known to happen with the 03/04 Cobras.

I try to take my car for what it is. Cheap and fun.

I agree with you. I just think that if an IRS system is done well, it can be basically as reliable as it's solid counterpart. I'm not a Corvette guy, but I haven't heard of them having reliability problems with their differential systems... The BMW ones seem to be fine, even up through 500-600 horses and almost equal torque. The reality is that of the cars sold, very few new owners have the intent of building drag strip monsters, and even fewer actually do. And for every other environment, IRS is superior.

[What5647]

Honestly though, most of those people who drive those stock mustangs wouldn't know or care if it's an IRS or solid axel suspension.

Also, I know the '09s had an option for a LSD. Just checked Ford's website, and don't see anything for the '10s.

[mattslope]

I do see that SRA = Strength. That's why the Corvette ZR1 went SRA over the less powerful Z51's IRS... wait... no, that isn't right...

That said, Mustangs are not sports cars. They are muscle cars and as such are meant to be crude, obnoxious, and everything gear heads crave. SRAs make sense in muscle cars because the owners are less likely to snobishly sniff about off-camber decreasing radius turns than to belch out the quarter time of his steed.

I just find myself too snobbish to enjoy straight lines.

[Wolvrin704]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Mullet

Meh, IRS can be just as capable in the quarter.... I'd say Ford makes them that way because it's cheaper for them to produce. The average Mustang owner leaves their car mostly stock, judging by the Mustangs I see on the road.


400 horses from a N/A 5.0? Now they're talking.... Although if it ends up being DOHC and a 2 valve engine, that will go down in history for being one of the all-time greatest wastes of potential ever.

Why then is one of the biggest mods done on the 03/04 Cobras exchanging the IRS for SRA? Why do the really fast drag guys run SRA? I do agree that IRS overall is the better system especially for the majority of people who buy their car and do nothing more than basic upkeep. I'm talking about your average Mustang guy who is as Matt says a gear head and like to go straight line. For those who like to carve corners switching to an 03/04 Cobra IRS is a great option which is usually doable as there are plenty of Termi guys willing to swap.

As for the them putting the SRA in because its cheap, yeah that could be part of it but isn't that part of the whole issue of being a muscle car? A muscle car by definition isn't supposed to have a huge amount of gadgets and high tech stuff, its supposed to have a high hp motor, weigh as low as possible, be fun and fast.

Many Mustangs may be modified and you just don't realize it. Mine for example has a CAI, gears, exhaust and tune. The exhaust is the only thing you might notice but its not overally loud as I have an aftermarket mid-pipe with cats. Even guys running a centri s/c may not be heard if they keep the rpms down running around town. Generally unless they get into the s/c, have cams, an o/r mid-pipe or headers you won't notice unless they change the hood. My goal like many Stang owners is to mod the engine like crazy and retain a sleeper look. The only thing I might do to the exterior is get deep dish wheels for the rear and maybe an 03/04 Cobra hood.

On the new 5.0 it will be DOHC with 4 valves from what I've read. For the GT500 or Cobra they could either supecharge it or use the 6.2 that they'll have in the F150 SVT Raptor, that motor if I remember correctly has 500 hp NA.

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by Wolvrin704

Why then is one of the biggest mods done on the 03/04 Cobras exchanging the IRS for SRA? Why do the really fast drag guys run SRA? I do agree that IRS overall is the better system especially for the majority of people who buy their car and do nothing more than basic upkeep. I'm talking about your average Mustang guy who is as Matt says a gear head and like to go straight line. For those who like to carve corners switching to an 03/04 Cobra IRS is a great option which is usually doable as there are plenty of Termi guys willing to swap.

Muscle car guys often forget that they are driving muscle cars and begin to brag about how great their cars handle. I slap them down frequently. As long as we all agree that SRA is a lower quality suspension layout than IRS, and the only benefit is for straight line strength, towing boats, and cost, then we'll all get along wonderfully.

As for the them putting the SRA in because its cheap, yeah that could be part of it but isn't that part of the whole issue of being a muscle car? A muscle car by definition isn't supposed to have a huge amount of gadgets and high tech stuff, its supposed to have a high hp motor, weigh as low as possible, be fun and fast.

I agree.

Many Mustangs may be modified and you just don't realize it. Mine for example has a CAI, gears, exhaust and tune. The exhaust is the only thing you might notice but its not overally loud as I have an aftermarket mid-pipe with cats. Even guys running a centri s/c may not be heard if they keep the rpms down running around town. Generally unless they get into the s/c, have cams, an o/r mid-pipe or headers you won't notice unless they change the hood. My goal like many Stang owners is to mod the engine like crazy and retain a sleeper look. The only thing I might do to the exterior is get deep dish wheels for the rear and maybe an 03/04 Cobra hood.

Your CAI presents no real world performance gain.

None.

What is your exhaust? Did you replace the cats free flowing units? Do your headers have larger primary tubes and better bends? Are you running larger diameter pipe with low restriction mufflers and better quality bends? When you say 'tune', are you talking a computer reflash?

On the new 5.0 it will be DOHC with 4 valves from what I've read. For the GT500 or Cobra they could either supecharge it or use the 6.2 that they'll have in the F150 SVT Raptor, that motor if I remember correctly has 500 hp NA.

That's the paradox. Mustang guys get excited about OHCs, but defend SRAs. It's like thinking that boob implants are gross, but butt implants are great. I don't follow the logic.

[What5647]

Uh...but how many of those Mustang guys are into handling?

Also, just because it's SRA doesn't mean it corners terribly, just not as well as IRS. SRA is still an adequate system.

[mattslope]

Originally Posted by What5647

Uh...but how many of those Mustang guys are into handling?

There are plenty that brag about the handling ability of their cars.

Also, just because it's SRA doesn't mean it corners terribly, just not as well as IRS. SRA is still an adequate system.

Just because it's a running chainsaw doesn't mean it can't be a baby sitter. Just not as good a baby sitter as a kindly old lady.

[redbaron]

I really don't see a reason to run SRA until you're down into a roll cage that can't have swing-outs per NHRA

The problem is that if you cheap out on the IRS (like ford did on the SVT's) you end up with poor geometry, wheel hop, and broken parts.

Ford GT's and corvettes don't have that problem even running SIGNIFICANTLY more power, and significantly faster straight line times.

The rear suspension on my car is vastly weaker than even mustang IRS and people run it down into the deep, deep single digits. Most aren't switching over to a ford rear w/ 4 link until they're below 8.0, if that tells you something about how well IRS can do in a straight line.

I've even seen kits to run ford 9" as IRS and they are BEEFY.