[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by thesteve

I'm pretty sure that once you find those statistics you'll also find that the average age is in the 16-17 area.

That's what I found.

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

being friends is no big deal, but when stepping into the realm of relationships the guy should confront the parents and ask if it's ok to date their daughter. Another reason in because at the wedding the dad gives his daughter away to her husband to be. His daughter is under his authority. A guy has no right to try to take a man's daughter without permission first. (Now I know that there are situations where the dad isn't in the picture or utterly and completely not respectable. In these cases, he can ask her mom. I am just stating things as I see how they should be.)

I don't really agree with this. I think that a guy and girl who are mature and smart enough to take a romantic relationship seriously should be mature and smart enough to make their own decisions. I do agree that parents should be involved to an extent, and would definitely say that a guy should be open to meeting and talking to his girlfriend's parents. But to me, frankly, asking the girl's father before asking her feels a little demeaning. If she's ready to date at all, then she should be ready to choose who she dates.

[redbaron]

I think it changes as you grow older as weird. As much as accountability is wise in a relationship, once you're an adult it's odd thinking of your parents being supervisory chaperones.

I don't think you need to be wealthy or in perfect financial situations before dating or even marriage, but you should be able to maintain employment and behave responsibly with your finances before you consider that kind of a commitment. I think it's probably healthy to have lived on your own beforehand as well. I've been out of my parents house since before I turned 19, and having to pay my bills and maintain my household have been a learning experience. I know that if I someday end up married and my wife does a particular chore, I will appreciate it that much more because I know what it takes to do it.

Of course, one of the already married chaps here might be able to shed a bit more light on whether that is a crazy supposition or not.

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

I don't really agree with this. I think that a guy and girl who are mature and smart enough to take a romantic relationship seriously should be mature and smart enough to make their own decisions. I do agree that parents should be involved to an extent, and would definitely say that a guy should be open to meeting and talking to his girlfriend's parents. But to me, frankly, asking the girl's father before asking her feels a little demeaning. If she's ready to date at all, then she should be ready to choose who she dates.

10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000+
also the fact then the dad Will not like some things that the girl dose not care about (believes)
What if he is Christian and the dad hates Christians?
Or he is Jews and the dad hates that?
The dad is not the one dating the boy so he should not get to say no (to a point)

[WorshipJesus]

I just want to clarify that I'm still talking about teenagers. Dating as adults is a different story.

Originally Posted by Kentl

The dad is not the one dating the boy so he should not get to say no (to a point)

True, the dad isn't. But he has a lot more wisdom than his daughter when it comes to seeing through guys. He can make a good decision about which guy is punk and which one is not. Teenagers don't quite have the wisdom that a grown man or woman may have.

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

I don't really agree with this. I think that a guy and girl who are mature and smart enough to take a romantic relationship seriously should be mature and smart enough to make their own decisions.

Where is the line drawn when it comes to a casual romantic relationship and a serious romantic relationship? It has to be when the guy and the girl are preparing for marriage. It's when they (as single or together) begin to financially, emotionally, and spiritually prepare for marriage. It takes a lot of growing up to do these things.. a lot of self-denial.

I do agree that parents should be involved to an extent, and would definitely say that a guy should be open to meeting and talking to his girlfriend's parents. But to me, frankly, asking the girl's father before asking her feels a little demeaning. If she's ready to date at all, then she should be ready to choose who she dates.

From my point of view as a potential father (I know that sounds dumb right now), I wouldn't want some guy to come pick up my daughter for a date and drop her off a few hours later without meeting me. Until my daughter turns 18 or moves out of the house I have the right to tell her what she can or can't do. I don't care if that is an insult to my daughter because it is my duty to protect her.. even if she hates me for it. Now the guy can come over and spend time with her at my home, but I probably won't allow much more than that.. unless I know they are out with friends.

Just because she may be "ready to date" doesn't mean that she should be able to pick whoever she wants. Take me for instance.. Last summer I was played big time. My wife (who was my girlfriend at the time) broke up with me and about 4 months later I started dating this one girl who I thought was a good Christian girl. We didn't do anything like my previous relationship when it came to supervision and setting boundaries. She was almost 3 years older than me so I thought that all that was stupid. Looking back, it was beyond stupid for me to date her. She wasn't ready for a relationship and neither was I. All she wanted to do was have a good time in life and dream of materialism. I wasn't ready to date either. I got caught up in her mentality of life. My parents could see right through her. They backed off because I was becoming more and more distant. I think the worst part was that her parents were basically clueless about their daughter. Her mom knew everything about her (and didn't really even guide her when she was stumbling all around) and her dad was left thinking she was a good girl. Guess what happened.. she dumped me. She dropped me flat on my face.

Moral of this story? Parents need to be involved with their kids. They need to be protecting them from those who will drag them down and out. Just because a teenager is ready to date doesn't mean that they can choose wisely. Look at my situation. I had the job, I was paying my bills, and I could have moved out on my own; but there was no way I was ready to date without someone else's advice and guidance.

Even when I started talking with my ex-girlfriend (who is now my wife) I wasn't ready to be in a relationship. We were interested in getting back together, but I had drifted so far from God and rationality that she didn't want to get back with me. I had to grow up and turn back to God before she would take me back. No, my parents weren't the first to push me.. I was already so far from them, but they eventually became my counselors again. Anyways, my wife really wanted a man to be by her side, not a selfish little boy. Her mom had godly counsel for her they whole time she wanted to be with me. She really encouraged her to be patient. Long story short.. God got a hold of me and turned me around. Now we are happily married and responsible adults (but we still have so much to learn!).

Moral of the second part? Kids need wise, godly counsel from their parents or even a pastor to help them make wise decisions when it comes to dating (or anything for that matter). Parents are wiser than their kids; they can make better decisions and give better advice than kids themselves can.

Sorry for rambling.. I hope this helps others understand my point of view. I want my kids to do things right. I want to prevent them from experienceing anything bad like I did. If they will listen, then I can help; and if God will save them, then things will be so much easier! But that's up to Him...

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

I just want to clarify that I'm still talking about teenagers. Dating as adults is a different story.


True, the dad isn't. But he has a lot more wisdom than his daughter when it comes to seeing through guys. He can make a good decision about which guy is punk and which one is not. Teenagers don't quite have the wisdom that a grown man or woman may have.

We know and

I am sorry but just by talking to him you can tell if he is a punk?
Look I lot for kids dress like gangs dose not mean they are a lot of kids act like they are big and strong dose not mean they are I have had lot of parents think I am a jerk and in gangs ‘because they know what I am like’
I do know what you mean just letting you know you will not always be right
As for wisdom I don’t think so to me and my family is is not wise to le the parent chose the who to date and not to (to a point)
It just maters how you where raised
For example every one on here who says do not date as teens seems to have bad story’s those who adults that did not say it is okay
And I am guessing you parents\a girl friend you might have had to talk to her dad\mom
About it?

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Where is the line drawn when it comes to a casual romantic relationship and a serious romantic relationship? It has to be when the guy and the girl are preparing for marriage. It's when they (as single or together) begin to financially, emotionally, and spiritually prepare for marriage. It takes a lot of growing up to do these things.. a lot of self-denial.


From my point of view as a potential father (I know that sounds dumb right now), I wouldn't want some guy to come pick up my daughter for a date and drop her off a few hours later without meeting me. Until my daughter turns 18 or moves out of the house I have the right to tell her what she can or can't do. I don't care if that is an insult to my daughter because it is my duty to protect her.. even if she hates me for it. Now the guy can come over and spend time with her at my home, but I probably won't allow much more than that.. unless I know they are out with friends.

Just because she may be "ready to date" doesn't mean that she should be able to pick whoever she wants. Take me for instance.. Last summer I was played big time. My wife (who was my girlfriend at the time) broke up with me and about 4 months later I started dating this one girl who I thought was a good Christian girl. We didn't do anything like my previous relationship when it came to supervision and setting boundaries. She was almost 3 years older than me so I thought that all that was stupid. Looking back, it was beyond stupid for me to date her. She wasn't ready for a relationship and neither was I. All she wanted to do was have a good time in life and dream of materialism. I wasn't ready to date either. I got caught up in her mentality of life. My parents could see right through her. They backed off because I was becoming more and more distant. I think the worst part was that her parents were basically clueless about their daughter. Her mom knew everything about her (and didn't really even guide her when she was stumbling all around) and her dad was left thinking she was a good girl. Guess what happened.. she dumped me. She dropped me flat on my face.

Moral of this story? Parents need to be involved with their kids. They need to be protecting them from those who will drag them down and out. Just because a teenager is ready to date doesn't mean that they can choose wisely. Look at my situation. I had the job, I was paying my bills, and I could have moved out on my own; but there was no way I was ready to date without someone else's advice and guidance.

Even when I started talking with my ex-girlfriend (who is now my wife) I wasn't ready to be in a relationship. I had drifted so far from God and rationality that she didn't want to get back with me. I had to grow up and turn back to God before she would take me back. No, my parents weren't the first to push me.. I was already so far from them, but they eventually became my counselors again. Anyways, my wife really wanted a man to be by her side, not a selfish little boy. Her mom had godly counsel for her they whole time she wanted to be with me. She really encouraged her to be patient. Long story short.. God got a hold of me and turned me around. Now we are happily married and responsible adults (but we still have so much to learn!).?

Just because you are an adult dose not mean you are ready to date
That is what is called divorce

[QUOTE=WorshipJesus;3419617]
Moral of the second part? Kids need wise, godly counsel from their parents or even a pastor to help them make wise decisions when it comes to dating (or anything for that matter). Parents are wiser than their kids; they can make better decisions and give better advice than kids themselves can.
/QUOTE]

Kids need gudince not someone telling them that this guy or girl is bad when they are not
And not always if a dad is drunk and the mom I would take the kids all the time
A lot of you seem to think as soon as you become an adult you are wise




i got no Problem with what you put



In the end it is not wrong date as a teen and it is not right either It is just a choice the family decides

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thesteve

Indeed...and how many people rely on family to chip in for their mutli-thousand dollar wedding?

I don't think I would put that in the same category.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

True, the dad isn't. But he has a lot more wisdom than his daughter when it comes to seeing through guys. He can make a good decision about which guy is punk and which one is not. Teenagers don't quite have the wisdom that a grown man or woman may have.

Parents absolutely have more wisdom than kids do, most of the time. Which is why I'm not arguing that parents should stay out of the picture completely -- I've had a lot of conversations with my parents about relationships, both before and after meeting my girlfriend, and they've helped me in ways that I probably can't even fully appreciate yet.

But my point was that there's a difference between sharing wisdom and making all of a child's decisions for him/her. Honestly, it almost makes more sense to me for a parent to simply forbid their child from dating altogether at a certain age than for the parent to say, "We're going to allow you to date, we just get to pick who you go out with." In the first scenario, the parent knows their child well enough to determine that he/she simply isn't mature or discerning enough to be in a romantic relationship at all at his/her current age. But I can't understand the rationale behind the second scenario -- the parents think their child is mature and discerning enough to date and potentially prepare for marriage, but not mature and discerning enough to decide who? That just doesn't make sense. Why allow them to date at all if they have no say in who they go out with?

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Where is the line drawn when it comes to a casual romantic relationship and a serious romantic relationship? It has to be when the guy and the girl are preparing for marriage. It's when they (as single or together) begin to financially, emotionally, and spiritually prepare for marriage. It takes a lot of growing up to do these things.. a lot of self-denial.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

From my point of view as a potential father (I know that sounds dumb right now), I wouldn't want some guy to come pick up my daughter for a date and drop her off a few hours later without meeting me. Until my daughter turns 18 or moves out of the house I have the right to tell her what she can or can't do. I don't care if that is an insult to my daughter because it is my duty to protect her.. even if she hates me for it. Now the guy can come over and spend time with her at my home, but I probably won't allow much more than that.. unless I know they are out with friends.

It doesn't sound dumb -- I'm a bit more of a ways off than you are, but I've tried to think from that point of view as well.

And you're right; as long as a child is under his/her parents' roof, the parents have authority to lay down rules. Which is why I said it's understandable that some parents flat-out forbid dating up until a certain age (I may disagree with the choice of age, but that's for individual parents to decide). And it's also understandable that you would want to meet the guy. I'd be skeptical of any guy who wanted to date my daughter but actively avoided ever interacting with me.

But you're talking about having the guy ask your permission before even beginning to date your daughter. You keep talking about how parents are wiser and better judges of character than their children, but is that really always the case? Would you trust yourself to have a guy's character pegged after meeting with him for an hour? If not, how many meetings would it take before you'd consider yourself informed enough to decide on your daughter's behalf? Chances are, if he's interested in her, she's already interacted with him a lot more than you have. Which means that she probably knows him better -- and on a deeper level -- than you do, no matter how many times you meet with him.

And yes, it's your duty to protect your daughter. It's also your duty to prepare her for life after she leaves home. How are you going to do that if you don't allow her any room to make her own decisions, even if that includes the risk of making mistakes? If she's only ever dated people you picked out for her, what happens when she's on her own in college and a guy asks her out? She may not know how to make good decisions because she will have always had them made for her. And without you nearby to give her guidance as easily, there's a lot more room for damage if she makes the wrong choice.

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Just because she may be "ready to date" doesn't mean that she should be able to pick whoever she wants. Take me for instance.. Last summer I was played big time. My wife (who was my girlfriend at the time) broke up with me and about 4 months later I started dating this one girl who I thought was a good Christian girl. We didn't do anything like my previous relationship when it came to supervision and setting boundaries. She was almost 3 years older than me so I thought that all that was stupid. Looking back, it was beyond stupid for me to date her. She wasn't ready for a relationship and neither was I. All she wanted to do was have a good time in life and dream of materialism. I wasn't ready to date either. I got caught up in her mentality of life. My parents could see right through her. They backed off because I was becoming more and more distant. I think the worst part was that her parents were basically clueless about their daughter. Her mom knew everything about her (and didn't really even guide her when she was stumbling all around) and her dad was left thinking she was a good girl. Guess what happened.. she dumped me. She dropped me flat on my face.

Moral of this story? Parents need to be involved with their kids. They need to be protecting them from those who will drag them down and out. Just because a teenager is ready to date doesn't mean that they can choose wisely. Look at my situation. I had the job, I was paying my bills, and I could have moved out on my own; but there was no way I was ready to date without someone else's advice and guidance.

When I said "ready to date," I didn't just mean practically. Again, I don't even believe all of the criteria you listed are necessary for that (ability to pay bills, live on ones own). Being ready for a romantic relationship means being wise, discerning and mature about the way you approach it. That happens at a different age for different people, and parents need to make a judgment call based on the character of their child.

And honestly, no matter how old people get, they will sometimes make dumb decisions. Romantic attraction is a mean beast. A 40-year-old living on his own and supporting himself well can fall victim to a lapse of romantic judgment just as a 16-year-old can. Parents may be able to prevent some of that, but some of it is just life.

I, too, dated someone in high school that in hindsight I never should have been with. If I could go back in time right now, I'd probably change that. But since I can't go back, I've accepted it as a mistake and tried to learn from it. And I think I have learned a lot from it. So who knows -- maybe in the long run, I'm better off for having made that one mistake. It happens.

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Even when I started talking with my ex-girlfriend (who is now my wife) I wasn't ready to be in a relationship. I had drifted so far from God and rationality that she didn't want to get back with me. I had to grow up and turn back to God before she would take me back. No, my parents weren't the first to push me.. I was already so far from them, but they eventually became my counselors again. Anyways, my wife really wanted a man to be by her side, not a selfish little boy. Her mom had godly counsel for her they whole time she wanted to be with me. She really encouraged her to be patient. Long story short.. God got a hold of me and turned me around. Now we are happily married and responsible adults (but we still have so much to learn!).

This actually sounds like a great example of the point I'm trying to make. You're not using words like "forbade" or "ordered." Instead, you say that they "encouraged" and "counseled" you to do the right thing, which was ultimately your decision. Again, I absolutely believe that parents should encourage and counsel their children to make wise decisions. And sometimes rules are necessary. But they should accept that if their child is ready to date and think about marriage, he/she is ready to make some of his/her own choices.

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Moral of the second part? Kids need wise, godly counsel from their parents or even a pastor to help them make wise decisions when it comes to dating (or anything for that matter). Parents are wiser than their kids; they can make better decisions and give better advice than kids themselves can.

I agree that kids need godly counsel from wise sources. What they don't need is to go through the motions of dating without ever having the opportunity to actually think for themselves.

[WorshipJesus]

Originally Posted by Kentl

We know and

I am sorry but just by talking to him you can tell if he is a punk?
Look I lot for kids dress like gangs dose not mean they are a lot of kids act like they are big and strong dose not mean they are I have had lot of parents think I am a jerk and in gangs ‘because they know what I am like’
I do know what you mean just letting you know you will not always be right
As for wisdom I don’t think so to me and my family is is not wise to le the parent chose the who to date and not to (to a point)
It just maters how you where raised
For example every one on here who says do not date as teens seems to have bad story’s those who adults that did not say it is okay
And I am guessing you parents\a girl friend you might have had to talk to her dad\mom
About it?

Appearance is a big one. Yeah, the parents may not like what they see, but by being able to meet him they can better discern whether or not he's a punk. Parents have been around once or twice and can most of the time read kids better than other kids can.

Just because you are an adult dose not mean you are ready to date
That is what is called divorce

That's not called divorce. Marriage isn't dating. Divorce should never be an option unless based on biblical grounds. Divorce is a whole different topic.

Kids need gudince not someone telling them that this guy or girl is bad when they are not
And not always if a dad is drunk and the mom I would take the kids all the time
A lot of you seem to think as soon as you become an adult you are wise

Guidance isn't just giving advice to someone. It's helping them move in the right direction. It's like how a farmer would prod his cattle to get them to move where he wanted them to go. Guidance is also explaining the consequences of certain actions. Kids need to be prodded in the right direction. Proverbs says if you spare the rod, you'll spoil the child.

If a parent tells their child that the guy who wants to date them is a lousy punk and he's not, then they are in the wrong.

I'm not sure how to handle drunk parents concerning what we are talking about. How would you handle it?

You think you're pretty wise too, Kentl. Be careful.

i got no Problem with what you put

What don't you have a problem with?

In the end it is not wrong date as a teen and it is not right either It is just a choice the family decides

Agreed, but I'm just saying how I think it ought to be done.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by Sean

I don't think I would put that in the same category.

Neither would I, but there are people who do believe that complete financial independence would also mean paying for the wedding without huge parental involvement.

[WorshipJesus]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

Parents absolutely have more wisdom than kids do, most of the time. Which is why I'm not arguing that parents should stay out of the picture completely -- I've had a lot of conversations with my parents about relationships, both before and after meeting my girlfriend, and they've helped me in ways that I probably can't even fully appreciate yet.

I could never thank my parents enought for how much counsel they've given me.

But my point was that there's a difference between sharing wisdom and making all of a child's decisions for him/her. Honestly, it almost makes more sense to me for a parent to simply forbid their child from dating altogether at a certain age than for the parent to say, "We're going to allow you to date, we just get to pick who you go out with." In the first scenario, the parent knows their child well enough to determine that he/she simply isn't mature or discerning enough to be in a romantic relationship at all at his/her current age. But I can't understand the rationale behind the second scenario -- the parents think their child is mature and discerning enough to date and potentially prepare for marriage, but not mature and discerning enough to decide who? That just doesn't make sense. Why allow them to date at all if they have no say in who they go out with?

I don't agree with a parent telling their daughter that she can date and then pick her boyfriend. I'm talking about a preventitive filter that can help prevent the daughter from danger and/or sin. Even if the dad approves of a guy she may still end up broken-hearted, but she will have been protected from some kid just wanting to get in her pants or whatnot.

Agreed.

That's two now, lol.

It doesn't sound dumb -- I'm a bit more of a ways off than you are, but I've tried to think from that point of view as well.

Good, I'm not the only one! haha

And you're right; as long as a child is under his/her parents' roof, the parents have authority to lay down rules. Which is why I said it's understandable that some parents flat-out forbid dating up until a certain age (I may disagree with the choice of age, but that's for individual parents to decide). And it's also understandable that you would want to meet the guy. I'd be skeptical of any guy who wanted to date my daughter but actively avoided ever interacting with me.

If the guy wouldn't meet me, that would throw up huge red flags.

But you're talking about having the guy ask your permission before even beginning to date your daughter. You keep talking about how parents are wiser and better judges of character than their children, but is that really always the case? Would you trust yourself to have a guy's character pegged after meeting with him for an hour? If not, how many meetings would it take before you'd consider yourself informed enough to decide on your daughter's behalf? Chances are, if he's interested in her, she's already interacted with him a lot more than you have. Which means that she probably knows him better -- and on a deeper level -- than you do, no matter how many times you meet with him.

Like I said before.. The guy talking to the dad before dating her is a good filter step that can help her to not be put in any compromising situations (sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.).. Remember I said help not prevent.

And yes, it's your duty to protect your daughter. It's also your duty to prepare her for life after she leaves home. How are you going to do that if you don't allow her any room to make her own decisions, even if that includes the risk of making mistakes? If she's only ever dated people you picked out for her, what happens when she's on her own in college and a guy asks her out? She may not know how to make good decisions because she will have always had them made for her. And without you nearby to give her guidance as easily, there's a lot more room for damage if she makes the wrong choice.

If the parents can help her choose the right guy by presenting her with choices of a godly man, then she can see that standard God wants her to have. I should clarify my point. When a guys asks a parent if he can date their daughter, the parent doesn't give the guy permission right then and there. If he meets their standards (they'll have to be somewhat open-minded, lol), then it is the parents duty to talk to their daughter. Now she can make her decision. She may like the guy or she may not, that's her decision.

When I said "ready to date," I didn't just mean practically. Again, I don't even believe all of the criteria you listed are necessary for that (ability to pay bills, live on ones own). Being ready for a romantic relationship means being wise, discerning and mature about the way you approach it. That happens at a different age for different people, and parents need to make a judgment call based on the character of their child.

Agreed

And honestly, no matter how old people get, they will sometimes make dumb decisions. Romantic attraction is a mean beast. A 40-year-old living on his own and supporting himself well can fall victim to a lapse of romantic judgment just as a 16-year-old can. Parents may be able to prevent some of that, but some of it is just life.

Agreed, but parents will most likely have a clearer head than the 40-year-old man you are speaking of. I thought my dad was gonna be extra protective of my little sister. He's really relaxed with this one guy my sister likes. She's 15 (16 in September) and he's almost 17. They are fine hanging around my parents and friends at school. They barely have any alone time yet they still are very attracted to each other. They are still "just friends", but they are getting to know each other on that friendship level first. Just like my wife and I did

I, too, dated someone in high school that in hindsight I never should have been with. If I could go back in time right now, I'd probably change that. But since I can't go back, I've accepted it as a mistake and tried to learn from it. And I think I have learned a lot from it. So who knows -- maybe in the long run, I'm better off for having made that one mistake. It happens.

If only we would have listened to all that godly counsel given to us....

This actually sounds like a great example of the point I'm trying to make. You're not using words like "forbade" or "ordered." Instead, you say that they "encouraged" and "counseled" you to do the right thing, which was ultimately your decision. Again, I absolutely believe that parents should encourage and counsel their children to make wise decisions. And sometimes rules are necessary. But they should accept that if their child is ready to date and think about marriage, he/she is ready to make some of his/her own choices.

I hope I cleared this up in this post..

I agree that kids need godly counsel from wise sources. What they don't need is to go through the motions of dating without ever having the opportunity to actually think for themselves.

Agreed Like I said, I hope I cleared things up a little bit. I think the parents should let their daughter make her own choices, but they should be there to guide her and explain why they think a choice is good or bad.

I won't be on for the rest of the night. Sorry! I gotta go home, but I'll be back tomorrow morning. God bless!

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Appearance is a big one. Yeah, the parents may not like what they see, but by being able to meet him they can better discern whether or not he's a punk. Parents have been around once or twice and can most of the time read kids better than other kids can. .

Appearance should not mater because that goes right in to how some one looks
I for one can not stand to wear bright colors
So a lot of “wise adults” assume I am bad because I wear dark cloths

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

That's not called divorce. Marriage isn't dating. Divorce should never be an option unless based on biblical grounds. Divorce is a whole different topic..

But you say adults are wiser at dating then why do they get divorce?
That was my point you say adults are wiser at dating yet more adults have un-marred sex then teens

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

Guidance isn't just giving advice to someone. It's helping them move in the right direction. It's like how a farmer would prod his cattle to get them to move where he wanted them to go. Guidance is also explaining the consequences of certain actions. Kids need to be prodded in the right direction. Proverbs says if you spare the rod, you'll spoil the child.
..

To me that is just like you trying to tell the kid what job to go for.
If dating is like you say it is then they want to marry the other one right?
So why do you get a say who they marry and who they don’t.
(yes it is dumb but a lot of teens girls think they will marry this guy)

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

If a parent tells their child that the guy who wants to date them is a lousy punk and he's not, then they are in the wrong...

But they think I am it is not their fault they talked to me and they believe it
The point is that parents cant always tell what is best you cant judge a book form its cover and you cont tell if someone else is good or bad

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

I'm not sure how to handle drunk parents concerning what we are talking about. How would you handle it?...

I have hundreds of times Any time I went over to tinas house
Any time I stayed with my uncle for three months

Any time I went to my mom and dads army buddies house
I grew up with drunks and I now how to be around them and be their friends and stay out of the way anyways
When me and Tina where dating her dad hated my guts because I was not “a real man”
I was to soft every parent has a deferent belief on who there kids should marry\date
The point is that a parent should have a say but so should the kid because the kid is the one dating the dad should not be allowed to say no you cant date him\her because of whatever reason (unless she\he might get hurt real bad)

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

You think you're pretty wise too, Kentl. Be careful.

Define wise
First off I don’t think any human is wise only davied (I think he is the right guy)

Originally Posted by WorshipJesus

What don't you have a problem with?



Agreed, but I'm just saying how I think it ought to be done.

that is what i dont have a probelm with they way you think it should be done

[Rainer.]

Kentl: I think you might have a problem trusting authority and adults.

I think something important for anyone dating (no matter what age, really) is to seek out the counsel of a trusted elder (and hopefully multiple and many). For most people, that is going to be their parents. If you can't trust your parents for one reason or another, that doesn't mean you should rely on your own wisdom, but you should seek out a mentor, perhaps an older relative or someone in the church.

[Kentl]

You know going back we are arguing about the same thing we all agree the parents should have a say (and talk to him
her baout it) but not complete control over it

[Kentl]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Kentl: I think you might have a problem trusting authority and adults.

I think something important for anyone dating (no matter what age, really) is to seek out the counsel of a trusted elder (and hopefully multiple and many). For most people, that is going to be their parents. If you can't trust your parents for one reason or another, that doesn't mean you should rely on your own wisdom, but you should seek out a mentor, perhaps an older relative or someone in the church.

I don’t have a problem I just get mad when someone thinks just because they are an adult it make them instantly wiser also
I don’t mind when some one gives me advice but I hate it when some one gets mad when I don’t follow it to me that means they are given me a demand (which I hate)
And yes I do take the advice on here but I also take it from my family and church members I also love the fact that any human when the others advice dos enot follow his
Hers they tell me to find others
I am what you call independent
I love making decisions by myself (it runs in the family It is call being stubborn)
My parents lave me alone I pay for my food I got to work I find traspotaion
As my mom once said
“I just life here because of the law”

[beanbag]

I think independence is a very cultural thing. in many cultures, mine included, children are expected to live at home at least until they get married, and many times married couples live with one set of parents.

for example, my best friend is 25. she's graduating with her master's degree at the end of the month, she's been working two jobs, owns her own car, and is fast approaching engagement to her boyfriend. she still lives with her parents. she's never lived away from them, even during college. her boyfriend is 27 and certainly has the means to purchase his own home, but he's still living with his dad and sisters, same as he always has.

my cousin is 27 and is planning her wedding. she works and goes to school, but she's also never lived away from her parents. her brother is 24 and is also soon to be engaged. he lives with his parents most of the time (he is a landlord out of state, and has lived in a few of the homes he owns for a few months at a time while looking for tenants), and his girlfriend lives with her parents.

in my culture, it's strange to live apart from your parents before you're married. if you go to school or work within 30-40 miles of your parents, you are expected to live with them. if you don't, that indicates to your community that something is wrong. this may be america, but there are certainly a lot of strong cultures present here. I think that it's wrong to issue a blanket definition and requirements for "independence," particularly when it comes to dating.