[everyman]

Jazz guitar is one of the most demanding music styles I can think of. You need to have a thorough mastery of your instrument and harmonic theory in order to play a decent solo, at least in the modern styles (i.e., bebop and beyond). It's also one of the least lucrative musical styles. I don't know of any guitarists in town who make a living playing jazz.

However, I think that devoting yourself to studying jazz guitar is a totally worthwhile endeavor. I say go for it. Find yourself a good teacher and set aside large chunks of time in a day and practice, practice, practice. Also, you're still in high school so if you find that a future in jazz guitar isn't for you, you still have time to change paths. And in the meantime, you'll have accummulated a bunch of musical skills and knowledge that will do you good in the long run.

But as I mentioned, I know of very few musicians who make a living playing the kind of music they really love playing. Most musicians end up teaching or working in a music store, LOL. With that in mind, I suggest that for a realistic career path, you go to college, graduate, get a good job that will get the money rolling in but will leave your evenings and weekends free, all that time keep studying and practicing your music, and then you'll be able to pursue your musical passion. You'll also be able to afford a Gibson ES-175.

[Rainer.]

Thorough mastery of the instrument and harmonic theory, but also I'd add a deep knowledge of the sound of jazz. You will just never become a great jazz soloist by just knowing what notes to put in what chords; that's like knowing the grammar of jazz, but you gotta learn to speak the language by listening, listening listening.

However, I am totally agreed that playing jazz is not the most lucrative profession, but I do know a good bunch of professional musicians who came out of my school's jazz program. Most of them are doing a combination of teaching, a pretty rigorous gigging schedule (of all styles; a lot of jazz, but a gig is a gig, if it pays, and you can do it, then you'll do it), and some other music-related side jobs. It's not an easy life, but they are doing what they love to do.

Ideally, you would be able to amass contacts and connections with people who can help you get jobs if you really want to go all the way with music, and make a name for yourself in the community. As with most things, I get the most music gigs from not the skills I may or may not have, but the names that I know. As a professional musician, that would be your livelihood.

I know the practical side of things scooted me out of pursuing music as my primary study, too. But depending on your plans, you can do any number of things with music in your life. Often you will be able to take music classes if you can audition in, and even get a minor or double major in music while studying something else. I ended up getting involved in bands and other musical gigs through my friends that allowed me to stay in the local music community while still going to school for other things.

[1/2-Fast Player]

If you'd like to get a look at The Real Book, there's a pdf version here:

(link edited out)

You'll still want to buy a copy. It'd cost more in printer cartridges to print out the pdf than the book costs. Still, it's handy to have on your laptop or on a memory stick.

[1/2-Fast Player]

> Often you will be able to take music classes if you can audition in, and even get a minor or double major in > music while studying something else.


Absolutely! When I was at Samford, I knew several folks who were double-majoring music and math or music and business. It's very do-able.

Give yourself options.

[everyman]

Ten of my favorite jazz guitar records:

1. Wes Montgomery - Incredible Jazz Guitar
2. Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue
3. Jim Hall - Concierto
4. Charlie Christian - Solo Flight
5. Grant Green - Midnight Blue
6. Jim Hall w/ Red Mitchell
7. Charlie Haden and Pat Metheny - Beyond the Missouri Sky
8. Jim Hall - Commitment
9. Wes Montgomery - The one with "While We're Young"
10. Kenny Burrell - Blue Moods

Yeah, I'm big on Jim Hall.

There's a book of Charlie Parker songs tabbed for guitar that's worth seeking out. Jaco Pastorius played "Donna Lee" as a bass solo on one of his albums. I've been working on that song for years on guitar but could never get it sounding smooth.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by everyman

Jazz guitar is one of the most demanding music styles I can think of. You need to have a thorough mastery of your instrument and harmonic theory in order to play a decent solo, at least in the modern styles (i.e., bebop and beyond). It's also one of the least lucrative musical styles. I don't know of any guitarists in town who make a living playing jazz.

But as I mentioned, I know of very few musicians who make a living playing the kind of music they really love playing. Most musicians end up teaching or working in a music store, LOL. With that in mind, I suggest that for a realistic career path, you go to college, graduate, get a good job that will get the money rolling in but will leave your evenings and weekends free, all that time keep studying and practicing your music, and then you'll be able to pursue your musical passion. You'll also be able to afford a Gibson ES-175.

That's not true at all. Around here Jazz players make some of the best money in town. I know a few people who make their entire living off the local jazz scene and they are supporting families too! One guy a friend of mine is playing with is a jazz guitar player and he makes $2,000 a gig playing with a local group.(plus these are just the few people I happen to know, I'm not too big into the jazz scene here)

Plus jazz gives you a good background to pursue things like playing on cruise ships and such which are very nice gigs!
It's all about how good your chops are and how good you are at networking.

Don't let anyone tell you your dreams are unattainable, or that you should settle for a more realistic career path. If it's what you really want to do grab your guitar and go for it!

[AudioAUnderdog]

I don't think a college would let me in for anything other than guitar.

Seriously though, it's sort of my main thing. It get's the majority of my time and attention, and despite the fact that I know I have a long way to go, I just think it's right for me. The school by day, playing evenings and weekends thing is pretty much what I do now, but I really want to do more. I may minor in something other than music, or maybe even get a day job at one point, but if there's any way possible for me to play guitar as much as possible I'll go for it.

I know it's not the most well paying job in the world, but that doesn't bother me. My grandparents are absolutely horrified that I want to play guitar for a living though. They always wanted to me to have a "real job" and study something business related in college. They also have the perception that classic guitar is the only legitimate form of guitar music. So I'm not looking forward to the day that I have to explain my decision to them. That's why I haven't really talked about college at all with them, and why they think I still am debating whether to get a degree in music or not.

Since my younger brother wants to be an artist, the running joke is that my parents will have to adopt some kid who wants to be a lawyer so they don't starve along with us when they retire.
I'd rather be living out of my parents garage and be doing something I love than to be living in a mansion with all the ability to order any guitar I wanted whenever I wanted it if I was doing something I didn't like doing. As far as what to major or minor in, I might do something unrelated to music in addition to music, but I have two years to figure all that out.

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by 1/2-Fast Player

If you'd like to get a look at The Real Book, there's a pdf version here:

(link edited out)

You'll still want to buy a copy. It'd cost more in printer cartridges to print out the pdf than the book costs. Still, it's handy to have on your laptop or on a memory stick.

Technically, downloading a PDF of the book off the internet is illegal; sorry I had to edit out the link. (In fact, the new version of The Real Book was produced by Hal Leonard because all the other versions were illegal)

Also, the Sixth Edition "legal version" is a bit different than the Fifth Edition "illegal version".

Originally Posted by metropolis4

That's not true at all. Around here Jazz players make some of the best money in town. I know a few people who make their entire living off the local jazz scene and they are supporting families too! One guy a friend of mine is playing with is a jazz guitar player and he makes $2,000 a gig playing with a local group.(plus these are just the few people I happen to know, I'm not too big into the jazz scene here)

Plus jazz gives you a good background to pursue things like playing on cruise ships and such which are very nice gigs!
It's all about how good your chops are and how good you are at networking.

Though it must be the exception and not the rule; not to mention you can't make it the same in one city like you can in another. My friends are recent jazz grads, and they're scraping by, but not quite comfortably living. I think there's truth in what you're saying, and what everyman is saying, too. You may be able to get a good income, but there's never a guarantee. And it's a lot of hard work at odd hours for low pay a lot of the time until you get the really good gigs.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with being a professional musician, just encouraging some realism.

Originally Posted by AudioAUnderdog

Seriously though, it's sort of my main thing. It get's the majority of my time and attention, and despite the fact that I know I have a long way to go, I just think it's right for me. The school by day, playing evenings and weekends thing is pretty much what I do now, but I really want to do more. I may minor in something other than music, or maybe even get a day job at one point, but if there's any way possible for me to play guitar as much as possible I'll go for it.

I know it's not the most well paying job in the world, but that doesn't bother me. My grandparents are absolutely horrified that I want to play guitar for a living though. They always wanted to me to have a "real job" and study something business related in college. They also have the perception that classic guitar is the only legitimate form of guitar music. So I'm not looking forward to the day that I have to explain my decision to them. That's why I haven't really talked about college at all with them, and why they think I still am debating whether to get a degree in music or not.

Since my younger brother wants to be an artist, the running joke is that my parents will have to adopt some kid who wants to be a lawyer so they don't starve along with us when they retire.
I'd rather be living out of my parents garage and be doing something I love than to be living in a mansion with all the ability to order any guitar I wanted whenever I wanted it if I was doing something I didn't like doing. As far as what to major or minor in, I might do something unrelated to music in addition to music, but I have two years to figure all that out.

Just think it through; plan it out; make sure that you know what you are doing, first and foremost. Know what you are getting into. Knowledge is power.

And since everyman put his top 10; here are some albums that I definitely don't think you should be without (mostly bebop):

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Bill Evans - Portrait in Jazz
Wayne Shorter - Night Dreamer
Chet Baker - Chet Baker Sings
V.S.O.P.: The Quintet
John Coltrane - Giant Steps

And because I'm a big fusion fan :

Return to Forever - Light As A Feather
Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
Jaco Pastorius - Jaco Pastorius
Weather Report - Heavy Weather

[1/2-Fast Player]

> I'd rather be living out of my parents garage and be doing something I love ...

You might want to check into your parents' opinion of that lifestyle, since it'd be their garage, after all.

When I was about your age (back in the Middle Ages), my parents gave me my high school graduation gift: luggage. Dad started referring to my bedroom as "the den."

It's a parent's duty (and I'm a parent) to kick their darling little birdie out of the nest eventually . Be sure you have a healthy pair of wings.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm trying to encourage you to use good planning in the pursuit of your dreams. For every musician you hear about who is making $2k a gig (and how many gigs like that does he play each week, btw?), there are hundreds who are equally skilled but are waiting tables.

Planning, foresight, and contingency plans will increase the probability of achieving your ultimate goals, not decrease it.

The wise pursue their dreams, but also have fallback options.

Just ask Brian May about his back-up career.

[1/2-Fast Player]

Rainer:
> Technically, downloading a PDF of the book off the internet is illegal; sorry I had to edit out the link

Yeah, I guess you're right. Now that I think about it, since the book was already illegal, I guess downloading it would be like receiving stolen goods.

Besides, there's tradition involved. While anyone can find the pdf with google, by longstanding custom the book is supposed to be obtained by entering a music shop on a quiet weekday afternoon when the place is empty, walking up to the counter, glancing furtively over your shoulder before laying down a few bills, and then quietly asking if the owner might know of a copy of the book.

The shopkeeper then bends down behind the counter, slips something into a bag, and lays it on the counter while making your bills disappear. You discretely slip it in inside your trenchcoat and walk to the door, looking carefully up and down the street before you slip quietly out into the rain.

Downloading it off the internet deprives the player of the entire jazz underworld experience, an important step in the development of a jazz player and as necessary as playing in speakeasies and sipping bathtub gin.

[metropolis4]

Originally Posted by 1/2-Fast Player

The shopkeeper then bends down behind the counter, slips something into a bag, and lays it on the counter while making your bills disappear. You discretely slip it in inside your trenchcoat and walk to the door, looking carefully up and down the street before you slip quietly out into the rain.

Downloading it off the internet deprives the player of the entire jazz underworld experience, an important step in the development of a jazz player and as necessary as playing in speakeasies and sipping bathtub gin.

That's the best post I've read in a long time

There is money to be made in music, it's all about learning the field, making connections and finding your niche. Here's an awesome website to start giving you some ideas: Musician Wages.com - The Website for the Working Musician
It's also a good idea to find the local musicians union in your area. Most of them have websites and free email newsletters you can subscribe to. It will start giving you a good idea of what's going on in your town.

The best thing you can do is establish yourself in a good club band, a good wedding/private events band and teach lessons. Look at it like this (all of these are approximate depending on the gig, but they seem to be the norm):

Weekend gigs at clubs/bars = $200/weekend
Wedding/private event gigs = $300-500
20 students at $25/lesson = $500/week

Add that up and assuming you do one wedding/private event per month that comes out to around $3200 a month. Not an MBA salarie, but not bad either.
Of course the downside is that it's not always consistent, but the more you put into it and the more you establish yourself the better the gigs you're going to get and the more stable this will become. It's definitely do-able and if it's your passion I say go for it! Get out there and start networking and keep practicing and learning new things

Oh yeah, and while we're talking about must-listen albums don't forget Mike Stern! Check out "Play" it's awesome

[1/2-Fast Player]

Those seem like reasonable numbers. You might be able to pull down $35k to $40k per year doing it this way. Keep in mind that there's no health insurance, no life insurance, no pension, etc. It may also be hard to secure credit for a car loan or home loan.

A nice gig, if you can get it, is to be hired by a business like a theme park or cruise line. Then you would be more likely to have benefits, and you're not living hand to mouth and not having to search constantly for the next job. I worked for several years as a sound tech at Disney World, and it was a great gig. Such jobs are very desirable and there's stiff competition for them, though.

[metropolis4]

One other thing about making a living and thinking about school; it wouldn't be a bad idea to take some business classes. If you plan to make a living doing music you need to begin thinking about yourself as a commodity and a business. It really helps to have some business savy, plus as you build things up there are some good things you will learn.

If you establish yourself as a corporation or business then you have to work out your own health care, retirement plan and other benefits, but these are all tax deductible! If you use your home for lessons, practice space and an office then part of your mortgage payment and utility costs, your guitar gear purchases(even things like strings and picks), your health care premiums, car payments, gas purchases are all tax deductible! You have to keep your own books though so some basic accounting, economics, marketing and tax preparation knowledge are very good to have

[AudioAUnderdog]

I've been reading some books and listening to some podcasts about music business. There are some good ideas out there, and with the internet finding gigs is probably a lot easier than it has been in the past.

The living in the garage thing was a joke. I couldn't live there even if I wanted to because there's no A/C, and in Houston that would be a death sentence.
Actually, my parents want me to stay in Houston for college, and still live here. I think that's mainly because it would be a huge financial burden if I went somewhere far away or out of state. I actually want to leave Houston, and go to Austin. It's a good compromise because it's not that far away, but it's still far enough away that I do feel like I'm on my own and it's financially possible, if I can make some money for myself. Plus it's the live music capital of the world, so what more could I ask for?

Giving lessons is not a bad idea. That may be how I am able to pay for a car in the future.

Thanks again everyone, ya'll are really helping me out. I feel much better about everything now that I have some idea of what I have to do.

[Rainer.]

Giving lessons not only isn't a bad idea, but will probably be a big part of your income if you decide to go pro. BTW, metropolis4, I want to know what clubs you're playing that make you $200 a weekend. I get around $60-80 a show on average.