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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:51 AM   #61
Ax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg7 View Post
In theory, it seems like it should be easier to learn now. There are a wealth of resources available. I, like some others, would say that it really depends on what the player wants to learn and how much effort they put into it. That's the bottom line. I think you have to be willing to sift through all of the resources and find the methods that work best for you. That is going to take some effort. I think it's all about setting a goal of what you want to do with the instrument (from simple to advanced, whatever) and just sticking with it.

As to some of the other stuff....
[begin rant]
I will never get the elitist attitude of some guitarists. So what if someone wants to learn two finger chords and play songs that use just those. So what if they want to play only one style of music. Why do you care? Seriously, if that's what someone enjoys, let them have at it and enjoy their music. Not everyone is trying to become a professional musician or even a great guitar player. We all have our own reasons for playing.
I know I only picked the guitar up to be able to play chord progressions as a backup to singing, for writing, etc. A lot of you guys have forgotten more about playing the guitar than I'll ever even know, but I'm okay with that. The point is, it does what I want it to. It serves its purpose for me. Other than playing, the guitar is also just another thing for me to work on and modify, etc. That is a bit of a hobby for me.
There are some people who own a guitar and barely even touch it. They might know only one song on it, which they play about once a month. They enjoy it, so good for them.
Some people just like collecting guitars, some like just tinkering around with the sound they can get from various effects or whatever, and don't really have a desire to do much more. Once again, if that's what they enjoy, I say go for it. There are all types.
I've even seen some guys go as far as to play the "God wants you to be your absolute best at guitar, so you should practice until your fingers bleed" card, and they seem to think it's a sin if you don't. That one is laughable to me. If God has told you to do that, then you should. However, it's not the same for everyone. I just thought I'd throw that out there now before someone makes that argument too. I've seen it before one too many times.
[/end rant]
I would agree with that G, but I will interject this. I have never learned a new style/technique that I have not found some way to incorporate and make me play better at what I normally play at. For example, I was in Jazz band in high school and I HATED a lot of the pieces we played, but I will say I'm a better guitarist, even in my own style, from having learned latin-progressions and chicken-pickin for that class. No, I really don't use them that often but now I can see different easier ways to play my own music because I've seen how other guitarists do it. I'm not a great guitarist, I'm mediocre at best and I don't like branching out from my own idiom, but when I learn something new that I said I'd never use, it almost always ends up for the better for me.

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Unread 05-30-2009, 10:51 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
yeah But how many rap songs have guitar? (and just so you know that was a joke)
Just so you know, the job market for guitarists in the Seattle underground hip hop scene (and I'm sure in other cities, too) is pretty good. I know a lot of excellent musicians who play in hip hop bands here. I've played with them, too. Hip hop is a style that I love playing, along with R&B, soul, funk, and motown, all very closely related. I've probably played more jobs in that style over the past few years than rock gigs, mostly because few other guitarists actually take the time to learn that style.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 11:42 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
yeah But how many rap songs have guitar? (and just so you know that was a joke)
I have heard rap songs with guitar licks that would blow your mind.
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Current Rig:
Guitars: The NightShade, Fender Big Block Toronado, Fender Marauder, Fender Strat, Rogue ST-4
Pedals: Dunlop Crybaby -> SBN Soviet Power Booster -> SBN Modded Ibanez TS7 Tube Screamer -> SBN Discombobulamodulator -> Modded EHX Nano Small Clone -> Korg Pitchblack Tuner.
Amps: EVH 5150 III 50 Watt, Vox Night Train 15 Watt
Cabs: Late 80s Peavey 412-MS Sheffield 1290.

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Unread 05-30-2009, 02:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty-Doggie View Post
I have heard rap songs with guitar licks that would blow your mind.
Yeah, I have an old Ice T album that has some of the coolest guitar work anywhere. Rappers tend to just gravitate towards really cool licks. If it weren't for the profanity, misogyny, glorification of violence, drugs, and lawlessness that some rappers use as subject matter I'd listen to even more.

I have a rap CD from a friend who is now a ward of the State of South Carolina that is breathtaking. He did a concept album talking about his life, salvation, and fall, as the kid of a crack head prostitute mother in Baltimore. It will cut you to the bone. He wanted me to play on his next project but ran into a little legal trouble thanks to a connection with a gang.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 03:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
even rap?
anyways i dont know what you mean by other styles
i know a lot say blues is slides and rock is hamer on and a lot of power chords
and any thing good is with gain
dont they all go together i mean i never consider
slide or bend to be one style i consider them as part you need to know mabey i misunderstod
You're missing the point... it's not different guitar techniques, it's different things in music theory. Different rhythms, different modes are modal changes...

And no, the best tones that you get (if you have a good amp) don't have to be with a ton of gain...
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Unread 05-30-2009, 03:41 PM   #66
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Yep. A crappy song is still a crappy song no matter how much gain you add. (though sometimes there's enough gain that you can't tell what they're playing, which can make it better lol) And there's a lot of good clean songs. Metallica has quite a few sweet clean guitar parts, and there's loads of others.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 05:02 PM   #67
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Speaking (or typing) of various styles,...

One of the things I'm really enjoying about our current praise band is that it requires playing a wide range of styles and material. I've played classical guitar at Christmas time (duet with flute), country tunes (we did "Live Like You Were Dying" a couple of weeks ago), the full range of praise music like Hillsong and Paul Baloche, and tomorrow morning we'll be playing "I Just Want to Celebrate" by Rare Earth and "If Today Was Your Last Day" by Nickelback, among other songs.

And of course a selection of hymns, traditionals, and gospel tunes.

We even did one "Unplugged" Sunday with acoustic guitars and bass, flute, harp, mandolin, djembe, and piano.

I'm trying to talk our leader into tossing in some Glenn Kaiser, but no luck yet. Good thing, 'cause I'd never be able to play it!

It keeps me hopping each week, and it's fun having to shift styles so dramatically. Pretty much everyone in the band except me is a top-notch player, so I'm learning a lot and practicing my tail off to keep up with them. Half the time I'm struggling to learn to do something new, and the other half I'm struggling to adapt a part to something that fits my meager abilities.

And when all else fails, I just turn off my pickup, wail away like I'm playing my heart out, and later blame the sound man.

[tounge firmly in cheek; I'm an old sound man myself]

All styles have something to teach us, and what we learn can often be applied to other styles.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 08:00 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepenstein
]Every form of music has some artistic value. Every form of music has it's share of extremely talented players.
So what? Talent and artistic value are ideas that get tossed around too much. Whatever happened to music being an art for aesthetic pleasure and satisfaction? Otherwise it becomes a matter of pride, elitism, headwork and competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lc7rock
You're missing the point... it's not different guitar techniques, it's different things in music theory. Different rhythms, different modes are modal changes...
I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 08:12 PM   #69
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Was it easier to learn in the 'old days?' To that, I say 'Who cares?'

I do know that it's easier to learn when you're not spending your valuable time posting in 'Was it easier to learn....' threads on internet forums.



And with that, I'm off to convince myself I can afford to spend money on a noise gate.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 09:34 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LC7rock View Post
You're missing the point... it's not different guitar techniques, it's different things in music theory. Different rhythms, different modes are modal changes...

And no, the best tones that you get (if you have a good amp) don't have to be with a ton of gain...
Dude the wink meant I was joking that is what others said not me
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I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 06-12-2009, 08:24 PM   #71
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As one of the resident 'old dudes' who can still rock (I started playing when I was 7 and I recently turned 51. I play lead guitar and serve as the worship band leader for our church), when I contrast my learning experiences with that of my teen proteges (and I'm very proud of my teenage pickers who play with our worship team on a regular basis -- we routinely cover anything from Green Day to Desparation Band to Hillsong United to 'Big & Rich' to J.S. Bach, and usually in the same service), I've concluded that every generation has their own challenges as students of the instrument.

For my generation, access to affordable quality instruments was a challenge, as was the 'secretive' nature of some guitar players (including one local country lead player who routinely played his band's gigs with his back to the audience so the guitar players in the audience couldn't copy his licks). Access to information was also challenging... I was fortunate that at 11 years of age, one of the guys from my home church, John Russell, who played lead in a country band (and could match Chet Atkins 'lick for lick') routinely took the time to show me things and encourage me, something that I've especially felt increasingly more obligated to do after John went home to be with the Lord a few years ago.

My teen (some of them are now young adults) players (most of whom decided to start picking up the guitar in their early teens from watching me play for worship), have their own challenges, many of which have already been discussed by other contributors to this discussion thread.

However, there is something that we all share in common that's invaluable to the learning process, regardless of our age... It's the value of mentors to help us sort through the mass of information available, aid us in discerning substance from trivia, offer us honest loving critique of our playing, and open our eyes to new understanding of our instrument.

The neat thing about 'mentorship' is that age is not the determining factor for either seeking a mentor or being a mentor... For that matter, neither is technical skill. Identifying a mentor comes in response to the question, "I'd like to know what he/she knows; I'd like to be able to do what they can do..."

As recently as six years ago, I had gotten frustrated with my guitar work. I felt like I was in a box that I couldn't exit no matter how many new books or videos I read or watched. My answer to the question I posed in the previous paragraph led me to seek out an old friend, Shane Regal, who's 11 years younger than me. Shane can give Satriani and John Petrucci a 'run for their money'.

While I'm still no match for my young mentor's abilities, he definitely helped move me from the rut in which I found myself. We covered so much ground in the 3 months we worked together, that I had to break off our weekly sessions in order to work on the material we covered. After leaving these weekly sessions with Shane, I decided to go to one of the area colleges and pickup an intermediate music theory class to answer some of the "why does this work?" questions that were still troubling me. My only regret is that when I was ready to resume studying with Shane, he answered a call to move to Atlanta to join a newly formed contemporary Christian band called Viktor.

So... if you want to increase the ease with which you're learning the instrument, seek out a mentor!

[BTW, at the same time I was studying with Shane, he was studying with a local area 'blues player' -- everyone benefits from the insights and ideas of others, which is the reason most of us are here in forums like this. Steve Vai had it right when he said in a Guitar Player article a few years ago that he regarded himself as a 'student' of the instrument. Of course, if he's a 'student', I'm an amoeba -- LOL! ]
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