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Unread 05-29-2009, 04:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
I'll have to agree with GtrDave. I think the reason is that pro-level or near pro-level players don't use tabs. I'm not saying I'm in that league, but I never have used tabs for anything, I will say that I am definitely good enough that I believe I could tab most songs very accurately. If I can learn the parts of a song in 5 or 10 minutes for a relatively easy song, like a typical Tomlin / Crowder / Hillsong, etc. contemp P & W tune, by listening with a guitar in my hand, why would I feel the need to spend an hour (or however long it takes...?) to tab it? That looks like it would be a tedious and time consuming chore. I'm lazy about plenty of other things, but not that. It just isn't my job.... Unless someone wants to pay me - is there any $ in that?
Ya I guess lazy isn't the word. What you guys are saying is what I meant. Like if I figure out a piece, I've got it memorized from figuring it out, so there's no reason for me to tab it. So why would I spend the time tabbing it out? I could spend that time practicing.


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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:09 PM   #47
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pro's don't need tabs, pro's need ears...
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:20 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
Okay it dose not take hours to tab something it takes maybe 20 minuets and yes i know some who do make money out of it but they go around someone asks for a tab they tab it out and the guy pays them
It depends on the complexity of the piece and the abilities of the one tabbing it out.
It can easily take hours to tab out a more complex piece of music properly.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:30 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
It depends on the complexity of the piece and the abilities of the one tabbing it out.
It can easily take hours to tab out a more complex piece of music properly.
Exactly. And a pro would spend like 2 seconds learning easy songs like that and not bother tabbing them cause they're so easy. Hard songs which are worth tabbing take a long time to tab.

It all really comes down to if you're getting paid, or if you're just a really generous person willing to give up your time for tabbing things. Cause otherwise there's no point for someone good enough to figure out songs properly to bother tabbing them.

This isn't all pros of course, cause some do tab things out of the goodness of their heart. But the problem still remains that most of the tabs on the internet are done by people who either have no idea what they're doing, or can only get close enough to just give you an idea of how the song is played.

I'm not claiming to be a pro, but I'm at the level where I can tell when things are wrong, even if I can't figure out what it actually is.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:57 PM   #50
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I happen to like looking at tabs.

Notes on a guitar can be played in different locations, so I like looking to see how someone else has worked things out on the fretboard. Sometimes I'll work out a solo or a riff, then search the internet to compare notes, and if a tab shows a fingering I like better, then I'll borrow ideas from the tab.

I particularly value tabs that are done by the original guitarist. A good example is the tabs Daniel Carson did for his work for Chris Tomlin. I don't know if they're still on-line. Studying his tabs was a great learning tool for me.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 08:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by crazymoose View Post
Exactly. And a pro would spend like 2 seconds learning easy songs like that and not bother tabbing them cause they're so easy. Hard songs which are worth tabbing take a long time to tab.

It all really comes down to if you're getting paid, or if you're just a really generous person willing to give up your time for tabbing things. Cause otherwise there's no point for someone good enough to figure out songs properly to bother tabbing them.

This isn't all pros of course, cause some do tab things out of the goodness of their heart. But the problem still remains that most of the tabs on the internet are done by people who either have no idea what they're doing, or can only get close enough to just give you an idea of how the song is played.

I'm not claiming to be a pro, but I'm at the level where I can tell when things are wrong, even if I can't figure out what it actually is.
The way to get WAY better... is just play with some friends who know a song, and literally try to guess the chords ahead of it. That's the way to become your best because you can literally sense where a song will go... It takes a while to learn, but it rocks because today, some kid was playing a song he had gotten off of a tab, I had never heard it before and I was able to tell him the exact chords and what key and mode it was in without even looking at his guitar or touching my own.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 08:28 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by LC7rock View Post
The way to get WAY better... is just play with some friends who know a song, and literally try to guess the chords ahead of it. That's the way to become your best because you can literally sense where a song will go... It takes a while to learn, but it rocks because today, some kid was playing a song he had gotten off of a tab, I had never heard it before and I was able to tell him the exact chords and what key and mode it was in without even looking at his guitar or touching my own.
There are many ways to get better. Visualizing the fretboard and imagining the tones is an asset, for sure. I can actually 'practice' a song without a guitar in my hands.

For me, the two things that helped me improve the most were 1) getting to listen to and play with Tommy Walker for a few years and 2) taking a jazz improv course where I learned how to listen and dissect every part of moderately complex chord progressions in order to understand how to play a variety of melodies over them.
Both of those experiences stretched me way beyond being an adept-but-limited blues/rock/shred guitarist.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 09:10 PM   #53
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On the topic of how to get better, I know that one of the best things to do is just play with people who are impossibly better than you. Or take a gig that will force you just that much further beyond your skill range. Whatever it takes, just do something where you just have to play well.

I know what motivates me to practice the most is when I take a job where there are other people I'm playing with with skills waaay beyond me, and I really have to work make sure that they don't know that they are the ones better than me.

Nothing worse than being the worst musician in the band... and yet, there's nothing that will help you improve like being the worst musician in the band.



Another thing that helped me immensely as a musician was having to work with lots of other musicians, and mostly lots of transcribing, arranging, and writing. Once you have to write down a part, you really start dissecting its place in the music in your head. Once you have to write out piano, horn, string, drum, bass, and guitar parts for 7 songs in two weeks with only some staff paper and a CD, you really are going to want to easily be able to follow chord progressions and melodies by ear.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 11:30 PM   #54
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I have a question. In my band we play with chord sheets, but if I were to stop using them completely and just try to hear where it was going, would that help me or hurt me? I'm decent at figuring out riffs, solos and keys by ear, but I'm not good at chords. Would doing that help me learn to play chords by ear?
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Unread 05-30-2009, 05:47 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioAUnderdog View Post
I have a question. In my band we play with chord sheets, but if I were to stop using them completely and just try to hear where it was going, would that help me or hurt me? I'm decent at figuring out riffs, solos and keys by ear, but I'm not good at chords. Would doing that help me learn to play chords by ear?
It probably would help you.
I think that it's fair to say that a majority of pop songs are structured with a bit of redundancy in them:
verse 1 chords are similar to verse 2 chords
chorus 1 chords are like verse 2 chords
the changes of those chords occurs in a somewhat redundant rhythmic manner
the chords being used are not super-difficult to play

Recognizing and then memorizing that redundancy would help free you up from staring at the page in front of you and maybe even help you learn that musical intuition that LC7rock was mentioning before.
In my experience, most people who are competent players but rely on having the music on a stand in front of them simply have not spent enough time practicing the song on their own.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 08:57 AM   #56
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In theory, it seems like it should be easier to learn now. There are a wealth of resources available. I, like some others, would say that it really depends on what the player wants to learn and how much effort they put into it. That's the bottom line. I think you have to be willing to sift through all of the resources and find the methods that work best for you. That is going to take some effort. I think it's all about setting a goal of what you want to do with the instrument (from simple to advanced, whatever) and just sticking with it.

As to some of the other stuff....
[begin rant]
I will never get the elitist attitude of some guitarists. So what if someone wants to learn two finger chords and play songs that use just those. So what if they want to play only one style of music. Why do you care? Seriously, if that's what someone enjoys, let them have at it and enjoy their music. Not everyone is trying to become a professional musician or even a great guitar player. We all have our own reasons for playing.
I know I only picked the guitar up to be able to play chord progressions as a backup to singing, for writing, etc. A lot of you guys have forgotten more about playing the guitar than I'll ever even know, but I'm okay with that. The point is, it does what I want it to. It serves its purpose for me. Other than playing, the guitar is also just another thing for me to work on and modify, etc. That is a bit of a hobby for me.
There are some people who own a guitar and barely even touch it. They might know only one song on it, which they play about once a month. They enjoy it, so good for them.
Some people just like collecting guitars, some like just tinkering around with the sound they can get from various effects or whatever, and don't really have a desire to do much more. Once again, if that's what they enjoy, I say go for it. There are all types.
I've even seen some guys go as far as to play the "God wants you to be your absolute best at guitar, so you should practice until your fingers bleed" card, and they seem to think it's a sin if you don't. That one is laughable to me. If God has told you to do that, then you should. However, it's not the same for everyone. I just thought I'd throw that out there now before someone makes that argument too. I've seen it before one too many times.
[/end rant]
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:20 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
There are many ways to get better. Visualizing the fretboard and imagining the tones is an asset, for sure. I can actually 'practice' a song without a guitar in my hands.

For me, the two things that helped me improve the most were 1) getting to listen to and play with Tommy Walker for a few years and 2) taking a jazz improv course where I learned how to listen and dissect every part of moderately complex chord progressions in order to understand how to play a variety of melodies over them.
Both of those experiences stretched me way beyond being an adept-but-limited blues/rock/shred guitarist.
Yeah, playing stuff out of your normal style helps too... be adept at ALL Styles... and you will find that there are great things about every one of them.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:29 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by LC7rock View Post
Yeah, playing stuff out of your normal style helps too... be adept at ALL Styles... and you will find that there are great things about every one of them.
even rap?
anyways i dont know what you mean by other styles
i know a lot say blues is slides and rock is hamer on and a lot of power chords
and any thing good is with gain
dont they all go together i mean i never consider
slide or bend to be one style i consider them as part you need to know mabey i misunderstod
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I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:35 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl View Post
even rap?
anyways i dont know what you mean by other styles
i know a lot say blues is slides and rock is hamer on and a lot of power chords
and any thing good is with gain
dont they all go together i mean i never consider
slide or bend to be one style i consider them as part you need to know mabey i misunderstod
Yes, even rap. Every form of music has some artistic value. Every form of music has it's share of extremely talented players.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:37 AM   #60
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Yes, even rap. Every form of music has some artistic value. Every form of music has it's share of extremely talented players.
yeah But how many rap songs have guitar? (and just so you know that was a joke)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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