[Symbiotic]

she's gone and i don't know if i care:

last night while we were having yet another argument, she asked me if i could look her in the eyes and tell her i loved her....and i said i couldn't tell her that; it's not something i could lie about. She left and went to her brother's house where she will stay until this gets worked out. Before anybody says it was just the argument that made me feel this way, I should point out that i haven't felt love for her in a while. I haven't been interested in hearing about her days, haven't enjoyed being touched by her, haven't enjoyed touching her, and haven't enjoyed being with her. I would make sure she got a kiss when i was going out or she was just to keep her happy and make life less miserable. Earlier in the year we went to counselling to see if we could patch things up and be happy. That certainly helped make life a little easier as we weren't fighting nearly as much, but it never re-kindled my feelings for her. And I tried so hard to love her, but I don't care what anybody says, loving somebody is not a choice. I tried. I will say that when she left, we were both crying, although i think for me it was that i feel so bad that things haven't worked out. I stopped crying in mere minutes, i slept just fine, and i just don't think it's bothering me much. I do care about her, but like i care about everyone and anyone. I wouldn't let her leave until i knew she wouldn't hurt herself, same as i would do with anybody.

I remember before we got married someone asked me why i wanted to marry her and i couldn't come up with an answer. I was never able to. We never had much in common. I'm looking back and wondering if i just did it because i didn't know what else to do with my life. My parents got married young and have had a good marriage, so maybe i did it for them in a sub-conscious way.

Here's where things get really effed up; Looking back 7 years ago, before i met my wife, I had a crush on my wife's best friend. At a party for the other girl, me and my wife were set up by a mutual friend and i figured "why not" since this crush had a boyfriend. Things just went from there, although i can say that i was never able to shake that crush. Anytime she would talk about her boyfriends i would get jealous. Even after well over a year out of high school, and not seeing this other girl(or really even communicating), my feelings still lingered. Even now, well, especially now, i can't stop thinking about her.

I can't help but think that i made a monumental mistake and have really screwed up my life.

Please give me your thoughts. I need to sort this out.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

she's gone and i don't know if i care:

last night while we were having yet another argument, she asked me if i could look her in the eyes and tell her i loved her....and i said i couldn't tell her that; it's not something i could lie about. She left and went to her brother's house where she will stay until this gets worked out. Before anybody says it was just the argument that made me feel this way, I should point out that i haven't felt love for her in a while. I haven't been interested in hearing about her days, haven't enjoyed being touched by her, haven't enjoyed touching her, and haven't enjoyed being with her. I would make sure she got a kiss when i was going out or she was just to keep her happy and make life less miserable. Earlier in the year we went to counselling to see if we could patch things up and be happy. That certainly helped make life a little easier as we weren't fighting nearly as much, but it never re-kindled my feelings for her. And I tried so hard to love her, but I don't care what anybody says, loving somebody is not a choice. I tried. I will say that when she left, we were both crying, although i think for me it was that i feel so bad that things haven't worked out. I stopped crying in mere minutes, i slept just fine, and i just don't think it's bothering me much. I do care about her, but like i care about everyone and anyone. I wouldn't let her leave until i knew she wouldn't hurt herself, same as i would do with anybody.

I remember before we got married someone asked me why i wanted to marry her and i couldn't come up with an answer. I was never able to. We never had much in common. I'm looking back and wondering if i just did it because i didn't know what else to do with my life. My parents got married young and have had a good marriage, so maybe i did it for them in a sub-conscious way.

Here's where things get really effed up; Looking back 7 years ago, before i met my wife, I had a crush on my wife's best friend. At a party for the other girl, me and my wife were set up by a mutual friend and i figured "why not" since this crush had a boyfriend. Things just went from there, although i can say that i was never able to shake that crush. Anytime she would talk about her boyfriends i would get jealous. Even after well over a year out of high school, and not seeing this other girl(or really even communicating), my feelings still lingered. Even now, well, especially now, i can't stop thinking about her.

I can't help but think that i made a monumental mistake and have really screwed up my life.

Please give me your thoughts. I need to sort this out.

Love is a choice that does not just happen. Yes, you made a monumental mistake, the first time you chose not to show your wife love.

1) You need to repair things with your wife. You need to choose to love her and show her love. Psychological studies have shown that feelings follow action on this one. Loving someone is a choice. I don't care if you deny it, but I have learned to love my mother who literally tortured me as a child. Love is a choice.

2) Forget committing adultery, which is what you are expressing a desire to do. Leaving your wife for someone else and even marrying another is adultery, and the thoughts of unfaithfulness in your head, call a spade a spade and learn to loathe that which is truly vile.

3) Your approach to the marriage is lazy right now in that you want to avoid fights, and have feelings conjured from out of vapor. That is not the way it works. Show your wife love. Take time to date her and choose to make her your chiefest joy. You can choose to do that.

You have betrayed her trust here, and done a hell of a lot of damage. And you are fantasizing about another woman to boot.

If there is pornography, or another thing in your life which is drawing sexual temptation, you need to remove it, now. I mention that merely because every time I have talked with someone about something like this recently, there has always been porn or another woman involved.

You need to go back and show her love in everything you do, and be faithful to her in body and mind, which you currently, are not.

[Role Modlin]

I am getting ready to celebrate my 18th wedding anniversary. I have been with my wife as a couple for almost 20 years. There have been times when things were not going the way we wanted them to. There have been times when it would have been easier just to quit and go our separate ways. There were times when I just didn't feel like giving it a chance...but I did.

I don't know what your view of marriage is but the Bible makes it clear that it is something far more than a physical relationship based upon looks and good feelings. There are times when those looks and good feelings just won't be there but that does not change the fact that in God's eyes you have become one.

I have no advice other than to echo what Bill has already said. Go to your wife and love her...no matter what.

[fenderguy962]

I'm going to start by saying that I am not married, nor am I in any type of relationship whatsoever, but I do have some beliefs that I want to share with you.

I beleive that God has a plan for us. That plan will work out perfectly because it accounts for all the times we screw up, it accounts for all the times we have sinned, and it accounts for all the mistakes we have made or ever will make. God's plan included you getting married to your wife, since it did happen, and God says in His word that divorce is not an option. God planned for you to be married to your wife, so it's not like you didn't find "the right one" which it seems like you are saying by bringing in your other "crush".

I also beleive, like Bill, that love is a choice, not a feeling. When you got married you made the choice to love her no matter what. No matter what she did or who she became. You promised that you would stick by her through anything and everything. Now is when you have to remember that promise, and keep it. Remember what you said you would do forever and ever, and don't break that promise. I recommend that you read the Bible and pray. I can't name how many times I have been having a problem and flipped open my Bible and started to read whatever page it landed on, and there were always verses that dealt with what I was going through.

Don't think about maybe your marriage as a mistake, because it wasn't. It was meant to happen, because it did happen, and that's the way God planned it.

If you haven't seen it, watch Fireproof.

[Sean]

You said you've been to counselling, but have you met with a pastor or a wise older Christian who knows both of you?

[MtlMom]

Just a warning about "friends" -

When you turn to friends for advice about this, please turn to people who love you both. So often people turn to their buddies who console them by telling them that they are "better off without him/her anyway" just to make them feel better. Those are not your real friends. Real friends are those who will help you both work through your differences. Whatever the outcome is, you must be able to say that you tried your hardest to make this work.

[Symbiotic]

Originally Posted by MtlMom

Just a warning about "friends" -

When you turn to friends for advice about this, please turn to people who love you both. So often people turn to their buddies who console them by telling them that they are "better off without him/her anyway" just to make them feel better. Those are not your real friends. Real friends are those who will help you both work through your differences. Whatever the outcome is, you must be able to say that you tried your hardest to make this work.

I can say that the one friend that i have brought into this does not have that attitude. He's my best friend, and has known my wife for longer than he's known me. He will try his best to not make this worse than it already is.

Originally Posted by fenderguy962

I beleive that God has a plan for us. That plan will work out perfectly because it accounts for all the times we screw up, it accounts for all the times we have sinned, and it accounts for all the mistakes we have made or ever will make.

I do believe in God, and His Son Jesus. I would say that I am spiritual, but not religious. The problem I see with your statement is that if everything is according to God's plan, where is the free choice that God has given us? Please don't take me as rejecting that God has a plan; I merely think that things can go awry from His plan. Also, I am not saying this marriage was not His plan. I simply don't know.

Originally Posted by Sean

You said you've been to counselling, but have you met with a pastor or a wise older Christian who knows both of you?

Unfortunately, we don't know anybody in this city we can turn to. The closest person we might agree to talk to is 7 hours away.

Originally Posted by Billgamesh

You have betrayed her trust here, and done a hell of a lot of damage. And you are fantasizing about another woman to boot.

First, I felt the best thing to do was not lie about my lack of feeling. She said she would've preferred me to lie, but I just couldn't. Although, I know the harm I would cause by confessing my "other" feelings, and chose it best to omit that. Second, while I do have feelings for this other girl(which, believe me, I wish I did not have), I have never thought about cheating. Nor would I. Fantasizing is definitely the wrong word. Thinking about is a more fit description.


Believe me: I wish none of this was happening.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

First, I felt the best thing to do was not lie about my lack of feeling.

Not really a smart move. Some things truly are best left unsaid, and just dealt with properly. In other words, dealing with the lack of feeling, rather than talking about it.

She said she would've preferred me to lie, but I just couldn't. Although, I know the harm I would cause by confessing my "other" feelings, and chose it best to omit that.

Both caused harm. And acting loving, and showing love, and choosing to love, are not lies. However, I might point out that there are certain lines of thought about your posts about Nadine (I hope I spelled that right, I am running from memory here) is that you honestly do sound like there were very real issues in the marriage, issues which might need counseling.

A lack of feeling could indeed have more to do with you than you know.

Second, while I do have feelings for this other girl(which, believe me, I wish I did not have), I have never thought about cheating. Nor would I. Fantasizing is definitely the wrong word. Thinking about is a more fit description.

I don't think so. Fantasizing does not have to be sexual. It might just be wondering the what ifs if things had gone differently. It might be a latent attraction undealt with. Fantasizing comes from the root fantasy, and having feelings and thoughts about another woman while you are married seems to me to be a form of fantasy.

And with your talk of jealousy about another girls boyfriends when you are married... I dare say I don't believe you haven't thought about cheating. I dare say, on a mental level, you are already cheating, by being jealous of another woman's girlfriend's. That is not giving all of yourself to your wife.

Believe me: I wish none of this was happening.

You are using passive words to describe your active choices. The choices you made have brought you to this point. It did not happen. Nadine is not here, so I can only say what I see. You made a choice. You have damaged the relationship by active choices you have made. (In all honesty, you both probably have, but you are here, and you can only change you.)

So change the present and future course by changing your focus.

Love your wife, apologize to her, and repair the damage, and stop fantasizing about a past crush.

Jesus said he hates divorce, and the splitting up of what God has joined together. Take the idea of your marriage being a mistake, throw it in the toilet and take a crap on it. Instead of shoegazing about the past, accept that what is, is that you are married to a woman, and focus on making it work. trying to determine if it was a mistake is entertaining the idea of bailing on it, and you made an oath before God to your wife. Honor it, even if it isn't a lot of fun. It won't be, a lot of the time.

My wife and I's first couple years were hard. I bet we fought more than most folks on here would believe. But we got through them. And our marriage has gone from rocky, to tolerable, to great.

[Symbiotic]

Originally Posted by Billgamesh

Not really a smart move. Some things truly are best left unsaid, and just dealt with properly. In other words, dealing with the lack of feeling, rather than talking about it.

just to clarify(not placing blame), she asked me. It was no answer, the truth, or a lie, and the no answer option would have been answer enough.

Both caused harm. And acting loving, and showing love, and choosing to love, are not lies. However, I might point out that there are certain lines of thought about your posts about Nadine (I hope I spelled that right, I am running from memory here) is that you honestly do sound like there were very real issues in the marriage, issues which might need counseling.

A lack of feeling could indeed have more to do with you than you know.

your memory is good....it may even be good enough to remember the problems we had even before we were married...

I don't think so. Fantasizing does not have to be sexual. It might just be wondering the what ifs if things had gone differently. It might be a latent attraction undealt with.

how can i deal with that? it would be much easier if those feelings had gone away 7 years ago, but they never did.

You have damaged the relationship by active choices you have made. (In all honesty, you both probably have, but you are here, and you can only change you.)

My wife and I's first couple years were hard. I bet we fought more than most folks on here would believe. But we got through them. And our marriage has gone from rocky, to tolerable, to great.

i'd believe it.



just re-read this:

Originally Posted by Mr. Role Modlin

...the Bible makes it clear that it is something far more than a physical relationship based upon looks and good feelings...

You may have misunderstood my comments about not liking to touch her or being touched by her. I don't mean sexually at all. I mean something as simple as her leaning on me while on the couch would bother me. As if she were some weird dude on the bus, if you know what i mean.... At least the way i read that was that you were saying that there is more to a relationship than sex. And to that i wholeheartedly agree.

At this point, if/when I do talk to Nadine again(and i expect it to be a when; I can't just walk away from all this[nor did i ever intend to...i don't think]), how the hell do i convince her to come back?...there was nothing i could do to get her to stay last night. I tried apologizing, I told her i was trying as hard as i could to love her.

It's probably worth knowing that her parents are divorced, so maybe she doesn't see any other solution.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

just to clarify(not placing blame), she asked me. It was no answer, the truth, or a lie, and the no answer option would have been answer enough.

I'd have lied, simply because love isnt about feelings and I believe there is a proper time and place for lies.

how can i deal with that? it would be much easier if those feelings had gone away 7 years ago, but they never did.

Learn to see them as they are. And learn to hate them, and not entertain them.

At this point, if/when I do talk to Nadine again(and i expect it to be a when; I can't just walk away from all this[nor did i ever intend to...i don't think]), how the hell do i convince her to come back?...there was nothing i could do to get her to stay last night. I tried apologizing, I told her i was trying as hard as i could to love her.

Love her, and tell her so.

I am going to ask this, and it is by no means a sleight or a diagnosis, but could you be depressed? Somehow, I think it might be worth exploring with a doctor. Just reading the tenor of your posts and the general apathy, it might be worth looking into.

[k-lub242]

Originally Posted by Billgamesh

I am going to ask this, and it is by no means a sleight or a diagnosis, but could you be depressed? Somehow, I think it might be worth exploring with a doctor. Just reading the tenor of your posts and the general apathy, it might be worth looking into.

I have to say this is the first thing that ran through my head too. I've kind of been in the same general "i don't feel like i love her and i don't care a ton" situation at one point with a girlfriend a while back. After a while I realized the cause of that was me being depressed, not our relationship. It's something to think about.

[PontiusPirate]

Originally Posted by Billgamesh

I am going to ask this, and it is by no means a sleight or a diagnosis, but could you be depressed? Somehow, I think it might be worth exploring with a doctor. Just reading the tenor of your posts and the general apathy, it might be worth looking into.

I second this...
Even large amounts of stress can be the cause of such an issue.

In the past year (after my mother's death) I have been under massive amounts of stress, as well as dealing with my worsened depression. I have had a hard time with Joel touching me at times (leaning against me, leg brushes, etc) for no apparent reason due to this. He knows, understands, and deals accordingly.
I definitely think this is something you should look into.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

she's gone and i don't know if i care

Until you care, not much anyone has said in here really matters.

Forget all of the "what do I say?" "how can I convince her to come back?" "how can I love her more?" questions. All of those will work themselves out the moment you start caring about your wife and the success of your marriage.

People, especially spouses, can tell when we're faking it. You can shower all the flowery prose on your wife you want begging her to come back and telling her you're sorry, but if you don't believe it yourself, it probably won't work.

I don't really know what else to say. I agree with what everyone said.

I think they might be on to something with the depression / stress issue.

[MtlMom]

I think seeing a doctor is an excellent idea on a couple different levels. There is a good possibility that treatment could make a huge difference in your outlook on life; by going to a doctor you are taking ownership of the problem; and your wife might be willing to give you a little time if she knows you are acknowledging that this is your problem and trying to work through it.

[Symbiotic]

gotta hit the depression thing on the nose. Not a chance. I love life, and am quite happy aside from this one part of my life(which is a big part, yes, but not the whole thing). My outlook on life is very positive. I have never been a pessimist, more of a realist(i don't tend be be overly optimistic, but slightly at times). I do appreciate that you guys have thought of this, because if that was the case, i may not know it. But i am positive that i am not depressed.

although, as i write this, the idea is coming that perhaps Nadine is depressed. She has always been pessimistic, and tends to be miserable a lot. Not trying to pass the buck, but it just came to me.

PontiusPirate: you freaked me out for a minute there - my name is Joel