Tips???....Suggestions???

TFKRawks! · 05-15-2009, 09:52 PM

Hey everybody! I just recently started a band (sort of). We are still looking for a drummer, but anyway, I was just wondering if you guys had any tips for me as far as writing songs? I've written a few songs of lyrics only and I've written 1 1/2 songs of just music but i have NOTHING with music AND lyrics. I'm having a hard time putting stuff together. I'm ALSO having a hard time finding good chord progressions and such. We are more of a hard rock (NOT screamo. Think Disciple, Skillet, Fireflight, etc.) band but i'm cool with punk or acoustic songs, but i didn't know if you guys had any tips as far as writing songs and putting them together and coming up with good music (e.g. chords, solos, etc.). THANKS A BUNCH!

Also, does anybody know what chord progression i could use after an E minor? I'm gonna play it in power chord form, so i don't know if that helps anyone.

1 Into God · 05-16-2009, 07:21 AM

My tip would be to not force it. I've found that when I sat down and was like "I'm gonna finish this song/ write a song right now" it turns out pretty lame (for both lyrics and music). Write from the heart, write when you're going through something and make it so people can relate, write when you have a cool phrase that you can't get out of your head. Even if you don't write a whole song, you could always use those later. I'll think of something and work on it for days piecing it together as I walk to/from school.

As for writing the lyrics, that's really something you have to figure out your own style for. Don't be so focused on rhyming that you use words that sound forced. Rhymes are definitely great, but if you can't find a word that fits then either don't worry about it, or find an "approximate" rhyme.

Musically, I always start with the basic chords and work off of that to get riffs and stuff to play. Your first songs probably won't be too complicated, and sometimes simplicity is best for some songs. Don't be afraid to play around with the chords either. You can make up some pretty cool chords by adding fingers to the original shape. Solos are nice but not necessary. If I put one in, I usually do that last and get it by just fooling around after I recorded everything else.

As for putting them together (lyrics and music) that's a personal preference. Usually I get the whole song written and add music later. Some people work the reverse and get a cool song musically and write the lyrics for it. Personally I think it's easiest to start with the lyrics, and when you're writing them add a vocal melody and work off that.

Is the song in Em? You could use Em - F#m - G - A for just a straight up progression, or add a different chords if you want a sharper sound.

Hope that makes sense.

Davomann · 05-16-2009, 10:30 AM

NEVER think that you have to finish a song immediately. Like 1 Into God said, if you do, it will sound forced and not real good. You have to let it come by itself and be natural. Don't be afraid to have unfinished songs. Currently I have 7 unfinished songs to work on, but im not going to force myself to write. I will keep on playing those songs with what i have of them, and experimenting with things past that point until i find something that fits.

Write down everything that you come up with immediately. Often some lyrics or a riff or a chord progression or melodic line will randomly pop into my head. When it does, I need to write it down or figure it out on my guitar straight away, otherwise I will forget it. You might find that you cant use some of the ideas you come up with the way you wanted to. But if you have them written down, you might be able to fit them into another song.

Adam_8287 · 05-16-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davomann

Write down everything that you come up with immediately. Often some lyrics or a riff or a chord progression or melodic line will randomly pop into my head. When it does, I need to write it down or figure it out on my guitar straight away, otherwise I will forget it. You might find that you cant use some of the ideas you come up with the way you wanted to. But if you have them written down, you might be able to fit them into another song.

Yes yes yes. This is exactly what I was going to say. Every good song has a hook, that one line, either in lyrics, music or both, that sticks in your head. In my experience, the best hooks come to you randomly when you're not thinking about writing. Write those down as soon as you can and start working with them. If you can't flesh out some more lyrical or musical ideas to go with the hook then set it aside.

You will write WAY more bad stuff than good stuff. Be prepared to set songs and ideas aside for long periods of time. I have songs I've been writing for years and some songs I've written in a week or a day.

Learning theory will help you find some new chord progressions. There's absolutely nothing wrong with starting with basic chords, but if you want to add some flare try adding some inversions or other variations.

TFKRawks! · 05-16-2009, 04:46 PM

ok thanks a lot guys!!....that helps a lot....i guess i do kind of force things a bit....i just need to be content to write down that one phrase of words....and work on it later....i get lots of little things....i just can't ever seem to put any of it together.....idk.....but thanks for the advice!

oh and as for being "basic"....can you be TOO basic???....sometimes i'll write stuff....and it'll sound good....but it's SO repetitive....and it's really simple....i just don't feel like it works that way....i would get tired of listening to the same thing over and over again.....

6strings21frets · 05-17-2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFKRawks!

Hey everybody!!!....i just recently started a band....sort of....lol....we are still looking for a drummer....(so hard to find!)....but anyway....i was just wondering if you guys had any tips for me as far as writing songs???....i've written a few songs of lyrics only....and i've written 1 1/2 (yeah i know...lol) songs of just music....but i have NOTHING with music AND lyrics....i'm having a hard time putting stuff together....i'm ALSO having a hard time finding good....like....chord progressions and such....we are more of a....hard rock....(NOT screamo....think Disciple/Skillet/Fireflight....etc.) band....but i'm cool with punk or acoustic songs....ya know....but i didn't know if you guys had any tips as far as writing songs....and putting them together....and coming up with good music....(like chords/solos....etc.)....THANKS A BUNCH!

also....lol....does anybody know what chord progression i could use after an Eminor???....i'm gonna play it in power chord form....so i don't know if that helps any....lol....

1. You might get more help if you set your post out the way 1 Into God did with his (see post below this one)
2. As for songwriting, check this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFKRawks!

oh and as for being "basic"....can you be TOO basic???....sometimes i'll write stuff....and it'll sound good....but it's SO repetitive....and it's really simple....i just don't feel like it works that way....i would get tired of listening to the same thing over and over again.....

Sometimes repetitive is good. Songs are meant to have a good rhythm and a constant flow of music.

Also, some of the best songs ever written/performed have quite repetitive music.

**tmlfan123** · 05-18-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6strings21frets

Sometimes repetitive is good. Songs are meant to have a good rhythm and a constant flow of music.

Also, some of the best songs ever written/performed have quite repetitive music.

Having said that, playing the same four chords for an entire song bores the average listener to death. I know, because I've written songs like that

I'd at least change the melody up.

roscoestring · 05-19-2009, 04:23 AM

I agree with everything that everyone else has said.
My best song was written in less than 10 minutes and another I have been working on since 1988. Haven't finished that one yet.
Open your eyes to everything around you. Write about things that are true. Write about things that you feel.
I usually come up with the tune first and add my lyrics later. However, I have done it both ways.

6strings21frets · 05-19-2009, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmlfan123

Having said that, playing the same four chords for an entire song bores the average listener to death. I know, because I've written songs like that

I'd at least change the melody up.

Perhaps a key change or a change in chord progression would also help.

TFKRawks! · 05-21-2009, 08:51 PM

Thanks to all you guys!!!....i just finalized my first song....music at least....gotta come up with some aggressive lyrics for it now!....

i really appreciate all your guys' help!

6strings21frets · 05-22-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFKRawks!

Thanks to all you guys!!!....i just finalized my first song....music at least....gotta come up with some aggressive lyrics for it now!....

i really appreciate all your guys' help!

Great to hear, and I'm looking forward to hearing it.

sunsurfer · 08-05-2009, 10:33 PM

I didn't read everyone's tips for you in this thread so I apologize if I'm just repeating something.

But I find three things that help me tremendously.

1) One is inspiration/influence from other works. If your band has any favorite artists that you want to sound like (or even if you don't, just pick something you particularly like), take some time to listen their music, paying attention to the lyrics and reading along as it goes.
Also try visiting some poetry/songwriting forums like The Poet Sanctuary.
Even when I'm having a writer's block, ideas just pour when I find myself wishing I had written something before that other person wrote it.

I know that sounds a lot like just comforming to everyone else's styles, and it can be, but not as long as you're putting your own mind to work while you're watching others do it. This is just some great insight on how some really experienced artists come up with their stuff, and I have found it very helpful in finding my own fundamentals for writing..

2) Another thing you can do is to sit down with your band members and some paper and just throw ideas around (this also helps, in addition to the above tip, in making your work your own). Pick a topic if you'd like, and get everyone's insight on it. Even if they're not great writers themselves you can take raw things coming out from anyone and make them beautiful. Ask questions, imagine situations, ask what if a LOT!
I like to survey my friends about this stuff sometimes too. I can even just write about them- because we all have friends with issues, and it's cool to be able to tell them what they need to hear in a song when you're too afraid to just say it.

3)Read biographies and articles, study psychology, follow the news. Just gaining smarts all around is great help too. This is where the, metaphors, similies and many of the imaginative images in your art come in.

Hope it helps!

-Ali