[Napoleon17]

Originally Posted by SccHarpGirl

I think we're more on the same page than it looks; I interpreted the OP's question to mean "Is it OK to pursue someone romantically while they are engaged to someone else.

Ialso think that there's telling and telling. You can tell someone you're attracted to them, once, but then there's actively pursuing them.While I definitely think there can be situations where it's OK to acknowedge your feelings for someone, pursuing someone romantically while they are in a relationship with someone else is very disrespectful to them and their fiance.

I interpret the question pretty much the same way. Which makes me wonder why you brought up cheating. Because you can still pursue someone romantically, then they can think about it, break it off, and then continued to be pursued by you.

Who you marry is a huge deal. It's the rest of your life we're talking about here. If my wife were engaged to another guy 3 years ago, and I loved her then like I love her now, disrespecting another guy is basically meaningless compared to the need for him to go away and find someone else. Of course it's disrespectful.

I obviously don't know the circumstances surrounding their relationship, but I could see situations where sending her 1 letter relating his feelings would be OK. However, while she remained engaged to the other guy, I would say repeated letters would be definitely not OK, until she broke off her engagement.

So.... she's not completely off limits then...

[LesPaulPlayer]

Originally Posted by Napoleon17

The point isn't being a good friend to your roommate. You can't have a lifelong marriage with your roommate.


You've never heard of the phrase "winning a girl's heart"? It basically means showing her that you love her... what is immature about that?





We're not discussing whether it's okay to make out with someone while they are engaged. Obviously the person should break it off before beginning a relationship with the other person.

Telling a person how you feel about them =/= making out with them. You can tell the person how you feel, then they can decide, "hey, I really like you", then they can break it off, then they can make out with you. There is no cheating involved here whatsoever.

didn't quite understand what your saying? can't have a marriage with your roommate?

Yes I have and I'm fine with it BUT while she is dating someone else NO.

[Napoleon17]

Originally Posted by LesPaulPlayer

didn't quite understand what your saying? can't have a marriage with your roommate?

Yes I have and I'm fine with it BUT while she is dating someone else NO.

You said that Jerry wasn't being a good friend to his roommate by burning his love letters. My point is that Jerry probably didn't care about being a good friend to his roommate because he cared more about being with the girl he was in love with. Makes sense, since you can't have a long happy marriage with your roommate.


Fair enough.

[LesPaulPlayer]

I still think it was pretty low and wrong of Jerry to burn the letters of his friend and then send his own. that is wrong and also a sin.

Yeah though I'm fine with "winning a girls heart" heck I plan on it when I start dating, but not if she is seeing another person. you obviously have to to an extent make them like you and you have to show them that you love them also

[SccHarpGirl]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think pursuing someone who is in a relationship is tempting them to cheat on their partner,and is a sleazy thing to do to another person (that other person being their current partner) . I also think that in 99% of cases, it's wisest not to tell an engaged/in-a-relationship person that you have feelings for them. However,I don't think it's *always* wrong to tell someone how you feel about them. Anything more than that, however, whilethey are in a relationship with someone else is, in my opinion, inappropriate. And this is coming from someone who has had absolutely lifethreatening crushes on married/engaged people in the past

Sorry about the slow response speed, my spacebar is partially broken and it's totally messing with my typing speed.

[Jonular]

Originally Posted by Napoleon17

Was Jerry wrong to do this? Should he feel badly because he deceived his roommate? No. He did what he had to do to win her heart, the other guy didn't.

So the ends justifies the means? You can do anything to get a girl, as long as she hasn't signed the marriage license? Besides killing the fiance, is it possible to do something wrong in this situation?

What Jerry did was completely dishonest to and dishonoring of his roommate. It was wrong, regardless of the "successful" (or at least long) marriage Jerry and his wife may have had.

Before I read Noelle's post, I was wondering if I was the only one that thought someone was off limits if they were in a dating relationship. What makes you want to pursue somebody that is dating someone else, much less preparing to marry someone else? That you like them and your idea of what being with that person would be like? The fact that they are dating someone means that they do not have feelings for you, but someone else. If they do like you in return, then their current relationship will probably end soon, and you can consider your options at that time (but like Nate said, you probably don't want that kind of person in a romantic relationship).

Originally Posted by guitarguy90

Jim apparently thought so in the first 2 seasons of the Office. . . ^_^

My roommate, friend, and I had a 45 minute debate over this after watching how season 2 ended. I'm not even ashamed to admit this.

Edit: I took my time responding to this, and the last ten posts or so were posted after I had begun my response. I don't have time to respond to those right now, so this post may not be very applicable to the current direction of the thread.

[SccHarpGirl]

Originally Posted by Napoleon17

You said that Jerry wasn't being a good friend to his roommate by burning his love letters. My point is that Jerry probably didn't care about being a good friend to his roommate because he cared more about being with the girl he was in love with. Makes sense, since you can't have a long happy marriage with your roommate.


Fair enough.

I think that Jerry,in this case, was sinning in several ways. We ought to be considerate o fothers regardless of whether or not they are romantically interesting to us. I for one consider all my friends' SOs - even the ones I've found incredibly attractive - as totally off limits.

I would also extend the same courtesy to people I don't personally know, and not flirt/hit on their significant others.

I'm inclined to disbelieve that we each have one soulmate out there who God has chosen for us, so that may beinfluencing my argument. But if there really was that person who you were "meant"to marry, don't you think you would both come to realize it, even if you were just friends?

[Napoleon17]

Originally Posted by Jonular

So the ends justifies the means? You can do anything to get a girl, as long as she hasn't signed the marriage license? Besides killing the fiance, is it possible to do something wrong in this situation?

I realize the illustration leads to an "ends justifies the means" type argument. I almost said as much in my first post, but figured it would just come up later, lol. Of course that's a weak argument if you look at it from that standpoint.

However, if you look at it from a different standpoint, maybe it is a good illustration of how engagement =/= marriage, as many people in this thread seem to think.

It illustrates the importance of who you pick to marry. Jerry thought it was pretty important. I think it's pretty important. More important than being polite and respecting another guy, or the idea that a girl who is engaged is "off limits".

Could you really look Jerry Falwell in the eye and tell him that he should have never pursued Macel (that's her name) simply because she was engaged? He never should have even sent her one letter of his own, because he should have respected his roommate. He should have been polite. After all, she was "off-limits".


EDIT: I guess my point is this: certainly the ends don't justify deception, or other sin. But the ends do justify other non-sinful means of communicating your feelings to the girl you're in love with.

[LesPaulPlayer]

Originally Posted by SccHarpGirl

I think that Jerry,in this case, was sinning in several ways. We ought to be considerate o fothers regardless of whether or not they are romantically interesting to us. I for one consider all my friends' SOs - even the ones I've found incredibly attractive - as totally off limits.

I would also extend the same courtesy to people I don't personally know, and not flirt/hit on their significant others.

I'm inclined to disbelieve that we each have one soulmate out there who God has chosen for us, so that may beinfluencing my argument. But if there really was that person who you were "meant"to marry, don't you think you would both come to realize it, even if you were just friends?

This is a whole other arguement BUT I'm going to touch on it.

I believe God has a plan A B and C and so on for us, I believe if you are walking the right path you will get plan A which is the perfect will of God but if you go off the track and get lets say plan C plan C becomes plan A , it may not be what He wanted but it's what you chose and now you have to live with that choice.

[SccHarpGirl]

In my mind, also, just merely telling someone how you feel isn't pursuing them. Pursuing them isgoing beyond merely telling them that you have (romantic) feelings for them.

The main reason why I would advise against it is that usually it doesn't end well. I have had several guys as friends who confessed feelings for me that I did not reciprocate,and it changed our relationship. Particularly when it happened while I was seeing someone else - after that, I know I really distanced myself from them a lot, mostly because I found it painfully awkward, but also because I usually have a very young/lighthearted/flirtatious personality and I really was worried about sending the wrong signals.

I'd say that pursuing her will probably do way more to damage your friendship than lead her to break off her engagement.

[Rainer.]

I read all the arguments, and am not going to respond to all of them particularly. However, this is what I think.

Is an engaged person fair game? No. They have stated their intentions for another, and it is accepted that everyone should respect that intention.

I do think, however, that honesty is a good policy. Though there is a fine line between being honest about your feelings about someone and pushing the issue. Also, if you do tell someone that you have feelings for them, you should be prepared to live with the consequences, as it is potentially friendship-destroying to be honest. Also if they do not reciprocate, then it is final.

[bread man]

Originally Posted by Napoleon17

Could you really look Jerry Falwell in the eye and tell him that he should have never pursued Macel (that's her name) simply because she was engaged? He never should have even sent her one letter of his own, because he should have respected his roommate. He should have been polite. After all, she was "off-limits".

In a heartbeat. What you are arguing is ridiculous.

[Napoleon17]

Originally Posted by bread man

In a heartbeat. What you are arguing is ridiculous.

Why?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by bread man

In a heartbeat. What you are arguing is ridiculous.

agreed 1000%. What he did was wrong, plain and simple. It was lying, stealing, destruction of mail, and just plain immoral behavior. He got the girl, but by destroying someone else by deception.

What Ben described was hardly better than David and Bathsheba. He stole his roomate's ewe lamb in a very real sense.

When a couple is engaged, they have made promises to each other.

[LesPaulPlayer]

Originally Posted by Billgamesh

agreed 1000%. What he did was wrong, plain and simple. It was lying, stealing, destruction of mail, and just plain immoral behavior. He got the girl, but by destroying someone else by deception.

What Ben described was hardly better than David and Bathsheba. He stole his roomate's ewe lamb in a very real sense.

When a couple is engaged, they have made promises to each other.

+ infinity, you win this thread sir