Wondering about order of effects..

relient nelson · 05-13-2009, 12:45 AM

Just purchased a couple new pedals and hopefully going to rewire the board sometime tomorrow if I find the time, so just wondering what order you guys would go if it were you.

Here's what I got.

Crybaby Wah
MXR DynaComp
Jekyll and Hyde
Bad Monkey Overdrive
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet
Holy Grail Reverb Plus
Danalectro Cool Cat Chorus
TC Electronics Nova Delay
BOSS DD-6 Delay
Ernie Ball VP Junior

I've got a few things in the chain that are set, like Volume pedal after overdrives and dynacomp, but before delay pedals, Nova Delay before DD-6. The main thing I'm wondering about is where in the chain I should put the reverb pedal and the chorus, and also about the placement of the compressor, before or after the overdrives. So, anyone feel up to working out a chain for me? Any input would be appreciated!

**thesteve** · 05-13-2009, 01:41 AM

I put my reverb last, and I would probably put the chorus after delays, though there are definitely folks that like it before the delays.

relient nelson · 05-13-2009, 02:23 AM

Thanks for the response. What's your reasoning for running your reverb at the end of your chain? Pros, cons?

**Rainer.** · 05-13-2009, 02:59 AM

Reverb takes your sound and makes it sound like it's in a big room. It wouldn't make sense as much places else. Also, it is an effect which naturally "muddies up" your sound. For max usefulness, I'd keep it at the end.

Though you may want to think about whether you want your volume before or after your delays, putting it before delays will give you a "trail" for volume pedal swells and whatnot, while putting it after will just act like a master volume. I personally like my volume before delays.

**bread man** · 05-13-2009, 07:49 AM

I have a boost and a delay after my reverb.

SwitchfootRulz! · 05-13-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by relient nelson

Crybaby Wah
MXR DynaComp
Jekyll and Hyde
Bad Monkey Overdrive
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet
Holy Grail Reverb Plus
Danalectro Cool Cat Chorus
TC Electronics Nova Delay
BOSS DD-6 Delay
Ernie Ball VP Junior

I've got a few things in the chain that are set, like Volume pedal after overdrives and dynacomp, but before delay pedals, Nova Delay before DD-6. The main thing I'm wondering about is where in the chain I should put the reverb pedal and the chorus, and also about the placement of the compressor, before or after the overdrives. So, anyone feel up to working out a chain for me? Any input would be appreciated!

Here's what I'd do. This is assuming you can use an effects loop. This is also assuming you don't use your amp's distortion (having 3 dirt pedals). If you do use the amp's dirty channel, I'd just put the chorus in the loop too.

GUITAR >>>
MXR DynaComp - I like my guitar signal to be the best it can be as it hits the chain.
Crybaby Wah - I like it best here. After distortion is too much.
Bad Monkey Overdrive - I'd use this as a slightly dirty boost. (Esp. in a woship setting, this with a chorus afterwards...sounds awesome.
Jekyll and Hyde - This as an OD / Dist (duh)
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet - This for all your gain needs.
Danalectro Cool Cat Chorus - After distortion because it's less muddy, but more exaggerated. If that makes sense.
BOSS DD-6 Delay - Since you have 2 nice delays, I think this is good placement for it.
Ernie Ball VP Junior - Because I like it here.

>>>AMP

EFX LOOP
TC Electronics Nova Delay - If you only use one delay, here's where to put it.
Holy Grail Reverb Plus - Takes the tone you've perfected and just makes it sound bigger. Doesn't change the tone here.

If I can help it, I don't put delay or reverb before a preamp.

Hope this helps at all. Of course, just try every setup you can think of, and whichever sounds best to you, keep it.

But this should be a good place to start.

metropolis4 · 05-13-2009, 09:39 AM

Out of curiosity, why a Bad Monkey, Fulldrive 2 AND J&H?
You basically have 4 tubescreamers on there plus a distortion. Do you just use a lot of different levels out of a tubescreamer? it seems like the Bad Monkey is a bit superfluous in that setup. I would think something a little more full range like an OCD or Liquid Sunshine would serve you better so you have another tonal option.

If you are going to run all those overdrive pedals I would definitely put the Fulldrive 2 before the other two. That pedal works really well to boost and stack with other pedals, but it always sounds better when it is the first pedal in the stack. When it's set after other pedals it sort of does the same thing as the compressor where it smooths them out and deadens some of the depth and character of them. Fulldrive 2 -> Bad Monkey -> J&H is how I would think those three would sound and work best.

Some compressors sound good after overdrives, but the DynaComp is such a squishy compressor I always thought it sounded best in front of them. When you set it after them it smooths them out too much and you don't get any depth or dynamics out of them. Plus it makes all your levels the same, so you can't give yourself a boost by hitting an overdrive. In fact, your overdrive/distortion tones end up sounding a little quieter than your clean tone which creates a weird balance issue.

**thesteve** · 05-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Now that I think about it, I have a boost after my reverb as well...

I put the reverb next to last for the reasons Jon stated. I have the boost last so, if needed, I can boost my entire signal chain (I'm not using an effects loop)

relient nelson · 05-13-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Reverb takes your sound and makes it sound like it's in a big room. It wouldn't make sense as much places else. Also, it is an effect which naturally "muddies up" your sound. For max usefulness, I'd keep it at the end.

Though you may want to think about whether you want your volume before or after your delays, putting it before delays will give you a "trail" for volume pedal swells and whatnot, while putting it after will just act like a master volume. I personally like my volume before delays.

I use my VP for swells all the time, so its definitely going to go before the delay, reverb, and chorus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwitchfootRulz!

Here's what I'd do. This is assuming you can use an effects loop. This is also assuming you don't use your amp's distortion (having 3 dirt pedals). If you do use the amp's dirty channel, I'd just put the chorus in the loop too.

GUITAR >>>
MXR DynaComp - I like my guitar signal to be the best it can be as it hits the chain.
Crybaby Wah - I like it best here. After distortion is too much.
Bad Monkey Overdrive - I'd use this as a slightly dirty boost. (Esp. in a woship setting, this with a chorus afterwards...sounds awesome.
Jekyll and Hyde - This as an OD / Dist (duh)
Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet - This for all your gain needs.
Danalectro Cool Cat Chorus - After distortion because it's less muddy, but more exaggerated. If that makes sense.
BOSS DD-6 Delay - Since you have 2 nice delays, I think this is good placement for it.
Ernie Ball VP Junior - Because I like it here.

>>>AMP

EFX LOOP
TC Electronics Nova Delay - If you only use one delay, here's where to put it.
Holy Grail Reverb Plus - Takes the tone you've perfected and just makes it sound bigger. Doesn't change the tone here.

If I can help it, I don't put delay or reverb before a preamp.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I play out of an AC15 so I don't have the option to use an effects loop.

Also, I'm thinking I'm going to run the Nova Delay before the DD-6, because what I often do to get a nice ambient, swelling sound is to use the dynamic delay feature on the nova delay and run that into a less noticeable reverse delay setting on the DD-6 to get a little more sustain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metropolis4

Out of curiosity, why a Bad Monkey, Fulldrive 2 AND J&H?
You basically have 4 tubescreamers on there plus a distortion. Do you just use a lot of different levels out of a tubescreamer? it seems like the Bad Monkey is a bit superfluous in that setup. I would think something a little more full range like an OCD or Liquid Sunshine would serve you better so you have another tonal option.

If you are going to run all those overdrive pedals I would definitely put the Fulldrive 2 before the other two. That pedal works really well to boost and stack with other pedals, but it always sounds better when it is the first pedal in the stack. When it's set after other pedals it sort of does the same thing as the compressor where it smooths them out and deadens some of the depth and character of them. Fulldrive 2 -> Bad Monkey -> J&H is how I would think those three would sound and work best.

The reason for the abundance of OD's is that I am currently the only guitarist for my church's young adult service band, and we play a huge variety of songs (from modern gospel, to Tye Tribbet, Hillsong, jazz influenced pop) and to keep the transitions smooth from song to song, it has become necessary for me to be able to change sounds without turning knobs. And yes I know I have at least three modded tubescreamers on my board right now (I wouldn't really classify the Boost side of the fulldrive as a TS). I am hoping to eventually replace the Bad Monkey with an OCD, but I'm pretty broke right now.

Anyone else have an opinion on the order of the three dirt pedals?

So here's what I'm kinda thinking, based off of your guys feedback and me thinking about it til 3 A.M. last night.

Dynacomp
Wah
Fulldrive
Bad Monkey
Jekyll and Hyde
Volume Pedal
Chorus
TC Nova Delay
DD-6
Holy Grail Reverb

Any other ideas or orders? I think I'm gonna start messing around with it in a few hours, give me a few suggestions for orders and I'll try them!

metropolis4 · 05-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Just one other thing to try out: I personally like my wah before the compressor. This way the compressor evens out some of the volume drops in the low end of the sweep and the peaks of the high end so you get a smoother sweep all around.

Other than that I think it all looks good.

relient nelson · 05-13-2009, 12:41 PM

That's actually how I've run it in the past, so I'll try it both ways and see what I like.

SwitchfootRulz! · 05-13-2009, 08:10 PM

Without an efx loop, that should be perfect.

Just experiment with the dirt pedals. I prefer lowest gain to highest gain in order. For 3 I'd have:

1: Slightly dirty boost (Monkey)
2: Tubescreamer-esque (J&H)
3: Modern Drive (Fulldrive)

And set them so they complement each other. So ideally (to me anyways):

1 & 2 make a smooth, crystal-clear solo tone.
1& 3 make a gainy lead
2& 3 make a chunky rhythm
1, 2, & 3 make heavenly high-gain goodness

relient nelson · 05-13-2009, 10:50 PM

So I spent a couple hours this afternoon messing around with stuff and ending up running it like so..

Wah, Comp, Fulldrive, J & H, Volume Pedal, Chorus, Nova Delay, DD-6, Reverb, and then I stuck the bad monkey on the end just to mess around with and see if I could actually find a setting I liked. And I did.

Hopefully I'll have a pic up tomorrow, if I can find my camera.

metropolis4 · 05-13-2009, 10:59 PM

Cool, so You're using the Bad Monkey as a boost?

relient nelson · 05-13-2009, 11:14 PM

well, kinda. Its not actually on my board, I'm just running it between my board and my amp. I use the Holy Grail's hall reverb settting with a completely wet signal and a large amount dialed in to create a very ambient, background type sound for a worship setting. And I found that boosting that reverbed signal with the bad monkey actually works better than boosting the signal before the reverb pedal. So that's what I've got going for now.

Now I've got a powering effects pedals problem.

I use the SKB 55 pedalboard and power all my pedals from there. However, when I try to power my holy grail plus pedal using the board's power, something interesting happens. The pedal will turn on and off like normal, but when it is on, it does not affect the sound at all. It seems to just send it straight through. When I use the individual wall wart adapter that came with the pedal, it functions normally. I have checked my polarities on the board and I believe the Reverb needs a 9 volt center negative power source, but I don't know what to do about this problem and I don't want to have to bring that wall wart with me all over the place.

Also, my Nova Delay requires a 12 volt signal. I've tried using my board to supply it, the pedal will turn on for a few seconds, and then power down. Again, when using the seperate wall wart, the pedal functions perfectly.

Any suggestions or ideas to help me troubleshoot this? Thanks guys.