small tube amp for worship setting

sinisterguy · 03-31-2009, 03:29 PM

Hey guys,

My tax return should be coming soon so I'm researching my options for a new amp. Traditionally, I've played through borrowed SS amps or pods none of which I was particularly happy with.

My current rig is an es-335 style hollow body with a few pedals (low, medium and high gain distortions, analog delay, digital delay, chorus, and a verbzilla to finish it off). My amp is a fender frontman 15G which i hate profusely, especially with humbuckers. The speaker breaks up at at less than 5.

I'm looking to get a new tube amp for use mostly in a worship setting with the amp mic. We use in ears at church for monitoring and my worship pastor is getting pretty anal about stage volume so it must be low wattage, however it would be cool (but not necessarily required) if I could use it without a mic at youth retreats/camps and other smaller gigs. Since I'm using mostly pedals, I wont be using exclusively amp overdrive, but I'd like to run the amp just at the cusp of breakup to mix in a bit of flavor and smooth out my distortion/od pedals. The cleans also need to sound pretty good as a lot of what i play during slower stuff is really spacey/ambient/pad like kind of stuff unless there's a lead line to play

I haven't had much experience playing with tube amps, but from my research The fender blues junior looks good. I've heard good things about the blackheart amps, but I'm not sure how it would do for worship. The epi valve jr. is cheap, but it doesn't have much control.

Any suggestions?

Folk_guy · 03-31-2009, 04:29 PM

You can check out a Blues Jr. or Pro Jr. by Fender. A have a Blues Jr. I use in church, but be warned although it's only 15 Watts it can crank out the volume so if your looking to run it closer to Break up it may be too loud for you. I would definately audition one, to see if it is the volume level you are looking for. For some reason it is much louder than any 15 Watt solid state amp I've tried (it may be a more efficient speaker, or their are probably other factors involving efficiency related to it being a tube amp).

**bread man** · 03-31-2009, 04:47 PM

Blues Junior has a master volume, so he can still run it near break up at low volumes.

mulletman · 03-31-2009, 04:50 PM

How much are you looking to spend? That will determine what your options are...

And yes, most tube amps produce massively more volume than solid-state amps of the same wattage.

For low-wattage tube amps, I'd recommend perhaps something from the Blackheart line. The Orange Tiny Terror is also absolutely brilliant. I just sold mine, and I miss it already. And the guy hasn't even come to pick it up yet. Vox also has recently started making a couple of low wattage amps. For a bit more versatility, you might try the Blackstar HT-5. It comes in several forms (head, combo, mini-stack) and has been getting excellent reviews. It's also considerably cheaper than the Orange.

sinisterguy · 03-31-2009, 07:12 PM

I'm looking to spend $400-800 CAD for a used amp, although the vox ac4 looks interesting. The HT-5 looks quite promising, especially with the cab emulation on the line out, but i don't think there are any dealers in canada and the exchange rate along with customs charges and shipping would be astronomical.

I have a question about tube amps in general. When you turn the master volume down, does it negatively affect the tone? how does it compare to an attenuator?

mulletman · 03-31-2009, 11:48 PM

Most tube amps sound better with the master volume up. That doesn't mean they don't sound good quiet, but they just sound better when you get the power tubes cooking. An attenuator allows you to crank the master, and get all of the tone your amp has to offer, while being able to control the actual volume elsewhere.

The Blackstar head comes out to about 377 Canadian... would import costs really be that much?

Folk_guy · 03-31-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletman

Most tube amps sound better with the master volume up. That doesn't mean they don't sound good quiet, but they just sound better when you get the power tubes cooking. An attenuator allows you to crank the master, and get all of the tone your amp has to offer, while being able to control the actual volume elsewhere.

The Blackstar head comes out to about 377 Canadian... would import costs really be that much?

Yes you stated it much better than I did, the Blues Jr. can be played softer, but the tone just isn't there at low volume settings. I found with mine it is very hard to get decent overdrive sounds with the Master volume low.

sinisterguy · 04-01-2009, 12:39 AM

you get nailed on anything coming from the states these days. As an example, the blackheart 5W half stack is $349 USD. After shipping and import costs it ends up being about $590 CAD. $125 of which is import charges.

**surferdude9375** · 04-01-2009, 02:51 PM

(I smell some tube snobbery in this thread....)

So instead of importing a product from USA, you could support your country and buy a Traynor YCV20.

A quick look over a Canadian music store and I found a YCV20WR for 720 CAD which means you can probably find the regular YCV20 for less elsewhere (since I don't really know where to find the deals in Canada).

I own the YCV20WR and it is a fantastic amp for all it's 15 Watts. Gives great cleans and a beautiful overdrive and it work great with the semi-hollow I borrow sometimes. For some places that are over-bearing about stage volume I will use the direct out (bypasses the speaker) and use the speaker defeat to turn it off and it still sounds reasonably well but most of the places I play at will have an iso cab somewhere to use. A good option to have available in small settings.

Just thought I would throw another suggestion out there...

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 04-01-2009, 03:17 PM

I am just going to state that I got to play with the Ac-4 at Namm. My pick all the way for a single channel little tube amp.I might get the head version as it is slated to sell for $200USD. It's 1/4 watt setting sounded good, and to be honest, it sounds a heck of a lot better than the blackheart killer ant.

The 4 watt setting can be fairly loud, and the 1watt setting is there as well.

My guess is that Vox dealers will not be that hard to find either.

mulletman · 04-01-2009, 04:03 PM

Did you get to play with the Vox Night train, or whatever they're calling it? If so, how did it compare to a Tiny Terror?

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 04-01-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletman

Did you get to play with the Vox Night train, or whatever they're calling it? If so, how did it compare to a Tiny Terror?

They didn't let me play with it, but the youtube demo, has me asking questions. (you only hear me)

I was in the vox booth monkeying around, when they came to record the demos. The Night train was commonly referred to, as the armored toaster, which to me is an apt description. Once the demos started, I couldn't get back on the gear. I don't know if I was supposed to be playing it at all. But, hey, it was Namm.

I really liked it a lot better. The night train though, I think is going to be a few price points above a tiny terror. Its still single channel, and lack of a dedicated clean channel is why I have not been as gung ho about it. I can overlook that on a $200 amp. But on a $700 one?

mulletman · 04-01-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

They didn't let me play with it, but the youtube demo, has me asking questions. (you only hear me)

I was in the vox booth monkeying around, when they came to record the demoes. The Night train was commonly reffered to, as the armored toaster, which to me is an apt description.

I really liked it a lot better. The night train though, I think is going to be a few price points above a tiny terror. Its still single channel, and lack of a dedicated clean channel is why I have not been as gung ho about it. I can overlook that on a $200 amp. But on a $700 one?

Ah, yeah. $700 bucks is a lot to pay for basically one tone. The Tiny Terror is the same way. It's great, but it's very much a one-trick-pony. I expect the Night Train to be similar.

You're right. A $200 amp is something that can be considered a practice amp purchase.... but for 6-800 bucks, there's a lot of gig-worthy equipment to be had, with considerably more versatility.

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 04-01-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletman

Ah, yeah. $700 bucks is a lot to pay for basically one tone. The Tiny Terror is the same way. It's great, but it's very much a one-trick-pony. I expect the Night Train to be similar.

You're right. A $200 amp is something that can be considered a practice amp purchase.... but for 6-800 bucks, there's a lot of gig-worthy equipment to be had, with considerably more versatility.

The night train had two distinct voices, but they are neither clean, nor footswitchable. That said. I want to do a shootout with the vox versus my princeton.

Folk_guy · 04-01-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surferdude9375

(I smell some tube snobbery in this thread....)
...

Not on my part, the original poster asked about a tube amp that's why I went that way, but for playing clean at lower volumes I actually prefer a SS amp. I'm very fond of the Roland Cube series for clean sound. I like the warm tone of a cranked tube amp just be low break up, but it isn't always easy to get that tone and keep volumes low.